The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Did God kill the dinosaurs?

What? You mean mosquitoes don’t have souls? In that case, I won’t have to feel guilty any more in swatting them to death and thus sending them to hell. :wink:

Christian evolutionists like Catholic Kenneth Miller rightly reject both creationism and form of Intelligent Design theory that espouses the "God of the gaps.’ but they view the original act of creation as an event governed by a divine sovereignty that made the evolution of homo sapiens inevitable. In other words, (1) the need for a solar system in which countless asteroids zoom towards earth was essential to God’s plan and (2) the asteroid annihilation of the dinosaurs was providentially essential to the possibility that we could evolve and survive predation. My main quibble with evolutionary theory is its failure to account for the role of unknown laws of consciousness which I’m confident played a decisive role in evolution. Natural selection and genetic mutation, though essential, were not in my view enough.,

I have 3 related questions for readers:
(1) If the history of the planet is the story of evolution, then is it reasonable to assume:
(a) that God Himself is in flux and in that sense evolves;
(b) that the afterlife realms are also in flux and evolve?

(2) If so, does that mean that Open Theism should be the foundation of our theology?

(3) Can you guess which Bible verse on creation is compatible with evolutionary theory?

Can God learn? What an interesting thought!

Evolutionary theory teaches that Mother Nature operates through it’s own fixed laws and evolves life forms through random natural selection and genetic mutation. In Proverbs 8:30-31 Lady Wisdom speaks as if “She” is a Person distinct from God and helps shape creation through divine play. Thus her role in creation parallels that of “Mother Nature” because the image of divine “play” is compatible with the image of divine exploration, nonpurposive activity, and evolutionary dead ends:

Proverbs 8:30-31: I (Lady Wisdom) was beside the master craftsman, delighting him day after day, ever at play in his presence, at play everywhere on his earth, delighting to be with the children of men."

The quote is from the New Jerusalem Bible which best captures the subtle nuances of the underlying Hebrew of 8:30-31.
But why would Lady Wisdom speak as if “She” were a distinct personality from God? To convey the idea that Nature operates impersonally according to Her fixed laws, whereas our loving “God” relates to humanity “personally” when we seek a relationship with “Him.”

Interesting. (But natural selection is not random.)

Our society has been conditioned through its educational system to accept evolutionary theory as a fact. It is not a fact; it is a theory. I disbelieve it. Natural selection is not tantamount to evolution. I am a firm believer in creationism.

Selection—natural or human but changes the proportionality of plants or animals already existing
.
When I was a teenager, I did and experiment with selection. I noticed that most of the radish blossoms in the vegetable garden were white. But a few were purple. I pulled out all the ones with white blossoms, and allowed the others to go to seed. The following year, I planted the seeds from the purple-blossomed radishes of the previous year. Virtually all the radishes from that seed, had purple blossoms. Those with white blossoms were FAR fewer than I had expected.

Hello,

I’m new at this site, hereby affirming my faith that universal salvation is the fruit of the gospel as taught by the spirit and the scripture.

Still, sad to see this acceptance of junk science here - dinosaur fairy tales!! Fake I’m afraid, insufficient evidence, permeated with evidence of science fraud. Just another devil’s trick to discredit God’s creation account. Find me a real dinosaur bone. Then date it. Fossils can be produced by patented processes, easy. There’s businesses out there making dinosaur skeletons and burying them for later exhumation. Ok, there’s a couple of big critters mentioned in the Bible, but a cretinous disinfo system of ‘dinosaurs’ it does not make. Time to let go of the childish worldly rubbish, friends.

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First, welcome to the site!

Second, you sound like a nutty Ken Ham conspiracy theorist… the outrageous statements should have at least some reference, as this is not common knowledge. Please provide the details around a company producing fake bones, and then burrying them for later recovery to issue world-wide fraud of new discoveries. It is gonna need some solid backing, as the claim makes it appear widespread, and I doubt it would be even as widespread as fake and forged manuscripts from antiquities. But no one goes around saying all of them are fake… I mean, it follows that if you believe this, then your Bible is manufactured too.

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Hello agnostic, thanks for going straight to the ad hom department. Forgive me if I assume that people have even heard of the dinosaur hoax. Or that I’m required to do your research for you. And not sure why you’d assert fake dinosaurs mean fake Bible, that’s a non sequitur if ever I heard one.

Anyway, you might start here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dphf_T_fGgw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDvKD_z3OeQ

As I said, there are no verifiable bones or fossils. Many dinosaurs are of impossible physical design. Fraud is rampant and relatively facile, the financial incentive is always there. The academic side and industry is tightly controlled by gatekeeper priests. What proof positive can you point to?

I marvel at the fact that Christians now generally acknowledge the lie of (macro-)evilotion, but think the devil stops there. Oh no my friend, the blue ribbon lies extend outward. He deceiveth the whole world - that means you too. So this is just another item in the category of ‘science falsely so-called’.

I guess if you think it is non sequitur, it is… Lol, I thought your post was satire at first. I still think you are trolling.

I guess you are a flat earther too and a geocentrist? All about as plausible as fake dinosaurs…

Before I even read your response, I wanted to at least find something. The internet never ceases to amaze… This was good for a laugh, and that made my day. Thanks. :slight_smile:

https://www.skeptic.com/insight/poes-trolls-and-dinosaur-deniers/

Well if you’re still agnostic you have much bigger problems than denial of the dinosaur hoax. Time to reason your way to the necessity of God’s existence and His attributes by simple deduction from things seen and unseen.

And thanks for the hit piece link, which I note has nothing to say of any substance. Consistency is praiseworthy.

Ahh, confirmation bias. I love it.

Welcome to the Forum, Ben. You have discovered already that there are disparate views expressed here on just about every topic. That only makes it the more interesting to be part of the discussion.

I am a 6-day creationist, not simply because of what the Bible says, but also because of the ability God has given all of us to reason. Sadly, I am probably in the minority, but that is of no real concern. Mostly, all the opinions expressed here are offered non-judgmentally.

Thanks Invernessian and grace to you. As evangelical universalists do we develop thick skins over tender hearts?

6 day creation seems a fair interpretation. What about cosmology though? Do you accept the Bible teaches that the earth is flat and stationary? I won’t press the point, but suffice to say the truth of God’s creation is so awesome everyone should behold it.

Interestingly, I attended a meeting a few months ago organized by a local chapter of the Flat Earth Society. They all seemed to be decent people, holding to a very literal interpretation of the early chapters of Genesis. I started the topic “Belief In A Flat Earth” which you may care to glance at. The subject did not provoke very much response. Personally, I don’t give the belief very much credence. Happily, as I near my allotted four score, neither do I become overly upset when folk don’t see everything the way I see it!

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Like it or no, the flat earth phenomenon has brought many to Christ and many back to him. There’s some wonderful testimonies around. I agree with your view that it’s literalist, but then the subject is physical creation, plus is the holy spirit in the business of rendering imperfect analogies/ metaphors? Anyhow I look forward to future discussions with you on universalism and all it subtends.

Interesting. But today’s BBC article, paints a different picture - of the rest of the Milky Way!

Also enjoy some other, thought-provoking (but related) material! :wink:

Dumbest crap I’ve ever heard

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That’s only because condemnation without investigation is a sure sign of indoctrination.

Yep… But honestly, I haven’t laughed this much in ages.