The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Divine Wrath: Consequence or Curse? by Kevin Deyoung

thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2011/04/05/divine-wrath-consequence-or-curse/

I love a blog loaded with scripture and hermeneutically accurate.

What does this have to do with universalism? This thread might go better under Eschatology or Soteriology.

Anyway, on the subject: while I agree in a sense, this isn’t one of the best expositions I’ve seen (George MacDonald’s The Consuming Fire is much better). Of course hell has to be something that God creates for the unbeliever, as per 2 Thess 1:6-10. Because without that cleansing presence of His (like is found in the lake of fire), no one would ever be redeemed.

As with any other aspect of our relationship with God, it’s a two-way street.

I apologize as I am still getting used to this forum-Just got tired of all the Rob bell threads. God Bless! :slight_smile:

I appreciate the link but there was not even ONE bible verse in that exposition

I am confused. What verse is this? God Bless! :slight_smile:

Deu 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God

Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fullers’ soap:

Isa 1:25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:

Mal 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

just a sample.

Thank you but I see nothing of the “lake of fire” or that we are redeemed in the lake of fire in the verses you gave. God Bless! :slight_smile:

Besides the abundance of scriptures that relate to fire being a symbol of God/Godly stuff, and as a redeeming, purifying agent?

Need I mention the live burning coal that the Seraphim touched Isaiah’s mouth with - the burning coal that cleansed Isaiah’s sins? :wink: It doesn’t take much of a stretch of exegesis or eisegesis to come to certain conclusions when the patterns are abundantly present.

But, on second thought I think I shall keep this “if it doesn’t literally spell it out right there in the verse” form of logic to use later. After all it might prove useful since the verses that say “Saviour of all mankind” never qualify that “all” to mean “some of all groups”. People are only able to draw that conclusion out of patterns after a ‘presumption’ that ETC is true. :smiley:

I believe Jesus is the saviour of ALL mankind but scripture is clear that not everyone will be saved either. There are atheists who make millions writing books blaspheming God and God blesses them with a beautiful house, more money that they can spend, beautiful weather and scenery, living in a free prosperous society and that is because Jesus is their saviour. Then there are believers who repented and surrender themselves to Christ who live in “hell”-no money, no food and Jesus is also their saviour but for them it’s a saving grace. God Bless! :slight_smile:

Yeah, Grace really isn’t fair at all is it? :wink: That Jesus would be such a perfect Saviour that everyone eventually gets into Heaven not based on their merits, but on His instead.

Just to be fair I’d like to point out that there is not one single Scripture mentioned in this otherwise nice exposition… :slight_smile: