The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Do we have a Universalist Pope?

Evangelical Universalism Arguments for Evangelical Universalism
#1

"The most important thing is the first proclamation: Jesus Christ has saved you. And the ministers of the Church must be ministers of mercy above all.’’

Sounds like unvarnished Universalism to me :smiley: .

Pope Francis has just been the subject of a 12,000 word interview with La Civilita Cattolicato, in which the headline news is that he said the Catholic Church is “too focused on preaching about abortion, gay people and contraception and needs to become more merciful”.

For which read “the Church”.

Hear, hear.

The Pope warned that the Church’s moral structure could “fall like a house of cards” unless it changed. Let us hope it does.

#2

When Pope Francis was elected as pope, I was overwhelmed with a sense of “celebration and excitement” that I felt was inspired by God. And the more I find out about him, the more I think Pope Francis is the man for this hour, a man of conviction and humility, a man who will inspire all the church!

#3

Couldn’t agree more Sherman. Goodness me, I’m no fan of the Catholic Church, as an institution (although I know many Catholics who are very splendid people). But the more I read from Pope Francis, the more I find myself nodding in slightly astonished agreement :smiley: .

“Conviction and humility” - absolutely spot on. One of the things I dislike about the Catholic Church is the power-mongering (if that is a word :smiley: ). Pope Francis seems not remotely interested in wielding power for its own sake, but only as a channel for expressing God’s truth in a way that reaches a lot of people. Good on him.

#4

it makes me wonder…do those that voted him in regret this now? or perhaps they genuinely sought the changes he is bringing?
i hope the latter, but i expect there are some of the former in the mix (humans being what they are).
i really thought he was going to be quite conservative, but i am astonished at the humility and love and charity he is willing to extend even to those theologically on the opposite end of the spectrum.
he really seems Christlike to me.

#5

Any Arminian would agree, in their own way, that God has already saved everyone, but would deny that everyone will accept that salvation. This is still probably what Pope Francis is talking about, as far as I can tell (so far. I’m trying to keep an eye out for a book about his doctrinal beliefs.)

Still, he and the past four Popes at least (back to John Paul 1 who only reigned for about a month but who was connected to St. Faustina) have been increasingly sympathetic to Christian universalistic thought in the RCC; and we’ve seen an erosion of the idea that any Pope (or Council) has spoken infallibly on the topic already. They’re probably going to line up with the Eastern Orthodox if they keep going this rate, allowing it as a legitimate theological opinion to be debated and held according to best reasoning and conscience, but not to be taught as dogma of the Church – but neither should some certain hopeless punishment be taught as Church dogma.

(Dogma == a doctrine by which communion with a group is marked.)

#6

true…good to be cautiously optimistic.

the last one, for all his faults (he at least one couple glaring one i won’t get into), went so far as to praise Origen as a real Church father, not mentioning him being anathema at all, here : zenit.org/en/articles/on-origen-of-alexandria, for which i’d credit him with a fairly friendly-to-universalism viewpoint!

#7

I wouldn’t be surprised if Pope Francis held a version of the universalist hope along the lines of von Balthasar. But no Pope is going to go beyond the Balthasarian hope. The kind of universalism expressed in Origen, Gregory of Nyssa, and Isaac of Ninevah is dogmatically rejected by the Catholic Church.

#8

Well, it kind of is rejected dogmatically. Like I said, there are adjustments slowly being made over the past few decades. Not all high ranking Catholic authorities would agree anymore that a Council or Pope has taught infallibly against universalism. (It’s taught against in the recent Great Catechism, but then Gregory Nyssa wrote the Great Catechism of his day, so… :wink: And I don’t think the Catechism claims to be infallible teaching, except where it explicitly makes that claim for particular details.)

I have a suspicion the Divine Mercy project is a big piece of this adjustment being made.

#9

Isn’t this standard Vatican II theology? At least I thought this was always the official view of the Catholic church since the days of Vatican II that non-Catholics could still have an opportunity to get into heaven as long as they were good people or something? At least that seems to be the view that most of my Catholic friends have always had.

#10

NG,

Yes, but that isn’t universalism, no moreso than Lewis was universalistic. Official catechism doctrine is still that eternal conscious torment is real, without mention of hope that no one ever goes there.

Also, the RCC position in any case excludes salvation of rebel angels, so they can only (debatebly) hope for the salvation of all human persons.

#11
#12

It’s very possible that Pope Francis (like his predecessor) could be influenced by fellow Jesuit Teilhard de Chardin, who I’m pretty sure, believed in all creation being brought into unity with God.

I found an article that mentioned Teilhard de Chardin in relation to universalism:

‘’ Under the influence of the Jesuit Teilhard de Chardin, Vatican II and the papal encyclical Redemptor Hominis affirm that non- [Roman] Catholic religions reflect ‘a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men’, and that since Christ redeems mankind by virtue of His incarnation, all men shall ultimately be saved. Karl Rahner and Hans Kung adopt a similar approach, stressing like de Chardin the cosmic centrality of Christ.’’
banneroftruth.org/uk/resources/a … versalism/

When I first spoke about UR to my late father, he mentioned William Barclay believing that all would be saved(my dad had books by Barclay), and also a Jesuit called Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. (My dad was himself a Jesuit brother in his late teens). He was reading his book at the time: ‘The Phenomenon of Man’. I now have that book, but it’s way too technical for me… :blush:

#13

Do we have a universalist Pope? I sure hope so. :wink: