Nope. There is as much or more evidence that there is a great spiritual place for us past death.
Actually I would go so far as to acknowledge a wonderful physical place for us - in our renewed bodies, on the renewed earth, in the renewed cosmos in addition to what you said. That’s always been the hope!
Well in terms of evangelicalism I think the evidence is there, writ large — in my experience at least.
My understanding is that for ancient cultures in the main such things were more often assumed than questioned… that came more with western enlightenment and industrialisation.
God alone is immortal… so Jesus bringing… “immortality to light” speaks more to the revelation of God through the person of Christ, i.e., “he who has seen me has seen the Father” etc.
Well in terms of that glorious promise, i.e., the resurrection, that was a promise to Israel alone (Acts 26:6-8) AND can be understood as speaking of and to Israel’s covenant renewal aka “the restoration of all things” etc.
That is indeed one traditional view.
Another aspect is to view John’s “new heaven and earth” motif of Revelation in kind with his fellow NT writer Paul, i.e., such things speaks of the new covenant reality… aka, “if any man be in Christ his is a new creation” — this is text understanding text.
Chad to LLC.
But I agree with LLC. We must warn the people, about the tribulation and Z-Hell (1, 2, 3)
The resurrection is a promise to all, as you quote here:
" If ANY MAN be in Christ his is a new creation."
I agree.
As was the OT pattern and reality that “any man” joining ‘the commonwealth if Israel’ enjoyed the full benefits of Israel — the resurrection promised to Israel was covenant restoration, i.e., the abolition of death aka EXILE. Through the redemption of Israel came the reconciliation of the wider world.
Totally spot on, and the ‘covenant restoration’ was given to all of us… The world as you say was reconciled no matter if they know it or not.
‘THAT WILL HURT’
Or even want it or not, apparently?
Yep, that’s most likely the case with lots of people totally ignorant of the blessed assurance that awaits them on the other side of the grave… something they could know now but for numerous reasons don’t.
And that is the million dollar position… But somehow many here will go to great lengths to say that the ‘blessed assurance’ is qualified by an act. It is actually a sad place Christianity has put itself in, but it is reality none the less.
Jesus didn’t say it was a “requirement”… that would be putting words in his mouth. Jesus spelt out the consequences to his people Israel, just as Daniel had done centuries before; this is Israel’s specific story… NOT a generic universal one. All those in the graves hearing His voice and coming forth was OC Israel, as per the prophetic promise of Ezek 37:1-14… some to reward and acclamation while others to ruin, shame, dispersion (Dan 12:2 OG) or contempt — and each according to works, i.e., their works were judged (Mt 16:27). THIS was the general resurrection of AD70.
Prior to this Jesus shows that in him Israel’s resurrection was well under the way and again it speaks of Israel’s covenant renewal some were coming into in that age as a then present reality.
Hear the words of Jesus!
Jn 5:25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
NOT everybody had “ears to hear”, i.e., had spiritual perception, but the wise did… “shining like the stars in turning many to righteousness” (Dan 12:3) — this was… “the first resurrection” i.e., Jesus and his firstfruits saints of the 40yr last days AD30-70 era.
When ‘requirements’ become the rule, as any form of religiosity engenders then there becomes the problem, because you will ALWAYS have further hoops to jump through and hurdles to jump over beyond what you were first offered and ALWAYS have someone telling you… you haven’t got it quite right until you master some next step — it’s the nature of religion.
Yes, I agree that any man joining Israel received the benefits or the promises of the covenant. This included people outside the actual nation itself. The problem was that many who considered themselves part of Israel weren’t really part of Israel.
Those coming out of Egypt were first offered the Law of God. However, some refused and followed their own instead. And this is what a lot of the Levitical law consists of, self imposed religious rules that didn’t come from God. There are requirements that actually DO come from God, these He did not do away with.
We need a song, to commemorate these thoughts! I think I have the answer!
I just spoke with a Christian college professor who said something I’ve never heard before: the OT is not necessarily true. For example, parts that talk about God commanding the Israelites to kill other nations … God did not actually say that. Maybe the writers were mistaken, or maybe they were inventing stories.
In contrast, Jesus is the true revelation of God, who said “you’ve heard it said to love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say unto you… etc.”
This took me quite by surprise. I’ve never heard someone who identifies as a Christian say that the OT narratives about God are actually false in this regard. It was very interesting.
What do you guys think of this view?
Certainly more reasonable and believable than the typical fundamentalist view. Evangelicals will reject this. They still teach us to follow the OT heroes, like Abraham being so great as to kill his son for God… Even as a prior Evangelical that was extremely troubling.
The are many well-selling Christians who argue exactly that. E.g. Gregory Boyd’s two volume work on O.T. genocide argues precisely that, O.T. prof Pete Enns’ books all assume that, etc, etc (think Brad Jerzak, Rob Bell, Brian McLaren, etc, etc). I would encourage you to recognize that there are numerous thoughtful progressive Christians who are not in the box we may assume when we have been in conservative circles.
I guess it just makes it even harder to believe in the NT if you take that route.
– the people in the NT (Jesus, Paul, etc.) quote the OT as authoritative and even “God breathed”
– they use it as a basis for much NT teaching
– therefore if the OT can be wrong, it would seem that the people and teachings of the NT can be as well
– also, if the OT can make supernatural claims that were believed by devout God-followers for hundreds of years… but end up being wrong… then why should we think the NT is any better?
This may help. Gotta get some learning on, though - it is not an easy Book by any means, but if you try hard you will begin to see the answers. It will take you this article and a number of books on the subject to learn why we can trust the bible.
Like I’ve said - doubts are utterly simple, answers take actual effort.
How to Read and Understand the Bible
Conrad Mbewe | Zambia
As God’s Word to his people, the Bible exists to be read and understood. This is not to say such reading and understanding are easy. Indeed, some people have spent a lifetime studying the Bible and so are uniquely qualified to teach it to others. Yet anyone can, in God’s mercy, cultivate a deep and ever-deepening knowledge of the Bible, as long as they pursue such knowledge wisely.
This article identifies six keys to reading and understanding the Bible. Our Bible reading must be Spiritual, contextual, Christ-centered, reverent, communal, and repeated. Let us consider each of these in turn.
Spiritual
The Bible is a book written in many ways like any other, and can therefore be understood by anyone who is able to read. Yet the Bible is also unique, different from every other book, because it is inspired by God. The Bible is “breathed out by God” (2 Tim. 3:16). Its writers “spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit” (2 Pet. 1:21). To understand what is written, therefore, we must have our eyes opened by that same Holy Spirit.
The Bible says, “The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned” (1 Cor. 2:14). A person can be intellectually qualified and educationally equipped to read and understand the Bible, but if his heart is not spiritually alive then he will fail to truly benefit from reading the Bible. Left to ourselves, the Bible’s contradiction of sinful living only evokes enmity from us. This is because “the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God” (Rom. 8:7). It is prejudiced against his Word and thus incompetent to read it in the way it was intended to be read. In order to read and understand the Bible, then, we must be regenerated (born again) by the Spirit of God. The Bible can certainly be read and understood at some level by those who have not been born again—indeed, the reading of the Bible may be the very means God uses to bring sinners to new life in Christ. Yet experiencing salvation produces in us both the ability to see spiritual truths in the Bible that we did not see before, as well as a new desire to submit to and follow its teaching.
Along with being spiritually alive, we must also be dependent upon God himself as we turn to the Bible to read and study it. It is vital that we pray for light from heaven to understand its teachings, and also for God’s grace to apply what we learn (Ps. 119:18).
Contextual
In order to read and understand the Bible we also need to have a growing knowledge of the Bible text and the times in which it was written. Remember that it is a book, and so there are aspects of understanding it that belong to the general principles of understanding any piece of literature. This includes reading any text in both its literary context and its historical context.
First, consider the Bible as a piece of literature. It is important, when we come to read any section of the Bible, to be aware of the different kinds of writing that are found in it. The Bible consists of narrative, poetry, prophecy, and so on. Just as we would read a historical novel today in a different way than we would poetry, so it is with the Bible. We must read with a sensitivity to what kind of writing it is. Sensitivity to literary context also includes reading every text in the flow of the book as a whole, remembering the broad purposes for which that biblical author wrote.
Second, we must be aware of historical context. The fact that various sections of the Bible were written during certain periods in history in and around the land of Palestine means that a growing knowledge of events in those periods in history, and of the land of Palestine, will enrich our understanding of the Bible. Much of what the Old Testament prophets wrote lands lightly on us if we are unaware of the might of Assyria, or Israel’s longstanding friction with Edom. The parable of the good Samaritan means little if we do not understand who Samaritans were and why Jews despised them. Due to the historical distance between us and the authors of the Bible, readers of the Bible today will do well to sit under sound preaching and to consult various scholarly resources that help them in their personal study, such as commentaries and Bible dictionaries.
Christ-centered
Next, we must never forget the Bible’s “big story.” Specifically, it is crucial to understand that the whole Bible is about Jesus Christ—who he is and what he came to do. The Old Testament anticipates Jesus and the New Testament reveals Jesus. Every book somehow contributes to the Bible’s message of a holy God’s saving mercy in Jesus Christ.
While not every Old Testament passage explicitly anticipates Christ, every text does move the story forward, a story that climaxes in Jesus. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees, devoted students of Scripture, for their failure to see him throughout the Old Testament: “You search the Scriptures,” Jesus said, “because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me” (John 5:39). Later, when Jesus was on the road to Emmaus after his resurrection, he began with Moses and all the Prophets and interpreted to two bewildered and depressed disciples everything that was said about him in the Old Testament (Luke 24:27). He reminded all the disciples later that night that “everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms” (that is, the whole Old Testament) would be fulfilled (Luke 24:44).
As you read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, you will notice that there is a coherent story line that holds it all together: the themes of this story line are creation, the fall, redemption, and restoration. These are not equal themes in the way the Bible treats them. Most of the Bible is given to unfolding the third of these, the great drama of redemption through Jesus Christ. But this redemption is set against the backdrop of creation and the fall, and this redemption will find its final completion in restoration and final judgment, when the original creation is restored to what it was originally intended to be. The Old Testament develops this story line, preparing for Jesus, and the New Testament fulfills this story line, portraying Jesus. The person and work of Christ, therefore, is what unites the entire Bible. As we read both Old and New Testaments through the lens of redemption in Christ, we will understand the whole Bible the way God wants us to understand it.
Reverent
We must also read the Bible reverently if we are to understand it properly. The Bible is God’s Word to humankind, revealing heaven’s great plan of salvation. Scripture therefore comes to us from above, calling for reverence. While human authors were graciously used in the writing of God’s revelation, the Bible is not ultimately a book written by humans. It is a book from heaven. We are to follow in the footsteps of the Thessalonians, who, Paul says, “received the word of God, . . . not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God” (1 Thess. 2:13).
As we read, then, we are to sit under the Word of God, not stand over it. We must “receive with meekness the implanted word” (James 1:21; compare John 12:48). When the commands of God contradict our own desires, we must submit to what God has revealed to us. This requires a deliberate humility to receive the Bible in its entirety, whatever it says. Such is the reverence called for by the sacred nature of Scripture.
Communal
The Bible is not meant to be read in isolation. To be sure, God has given each of his people an ability to read and understand the Bible individually. Indeed, the Christian who does not set aside time to regularly study Scripture alone will be greatly impoverished. Yet spiritual nourishment through Scripture is received not only in individual study but also through corporate study.
The main way in which the Bible is received corporately is through the preaching of Scripture by those called and equipped to serve God’s people in this way (Eph. 4:11; 2 Tim. 4:1–2). The Bible is also to be read and understood in other contexts, however, in which believers can discuss the text with one another in a mutually illuminating and sharpening way (Acts 13:15; 17:11; Heb. 4:11–12; 10:24–25).
Repeated
Finally, it should be emphasized that in order truly to understand the Bible with increasing depth over a lifetime, we must read the Scriptures repeatedly. The Bible is not a book to be read once and then placed on the shelf. As God’s life-giving Word, it must be read and meditated on with great care over and over again (Ps. 119:15, 48). As we grow in our knowledge of the full landscape of Scripture, every verse within that landscape becomes clearer and more meaningful.
Unlike other books, which we read and “finish,” believers never truly “finish” reading the Bible. Just as we must eat physical food each day if we are to be physically healthy, so we must eat spiritual food each day if we are to be spiritually healthy. As the psalmist prayed, “My eyes are awake before the watches of the night, that I may meditate on your promise” (Ps. 119:148). Portions of the Bible should be committed to memory, so that even when we are without our Bibles we can draw forth God’s Word and commune with him through it.
Conclusion
As we read the Bible under the illumination of the Spirit, with sensitivity to its literary and historical contexts, seeing Jesus as the point of the whole Bible, in sacred reverence, in a community of faith, and with meditative repetition, we will grow as faithful readers of God’s Holy Word.
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Psalm 110.1 ?
Read the words of the apostle Paul (and tell me whether he taught that the resurrection took place in the AD30-70 era:
Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied. But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (1 Corinthians 15:12-14 ESV)
(Bolding mine)
Paul also taught in verse 32, that if there is no resurrection of those who have died, then we may as well eat, drink, and be merry, since there would be no afterlife.
What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”
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