In listening to these debates I have entered into some depression- am I alone? maybe i need to back off now and then?
i sometimes find any debating stressful. i tend to back away when my brain can’t handle it lol…
this particular one i don’t find so much, but i think it’s because i feel firmly convinced, and it’s just the mechanics that are being argued over…but yeah can get stressful at times. depends on how much is riding on the debates for you.
Roofus,
I think we can let our perspective become warped if we put too much import on these discussions. The most important thing is to live as we are called to live by Christ, to follow him, trusting that as we do He will teach us and guide us into greater wisdom and understanding.
I was just reading Paul’s words in 2 Tim 2:
The core of our Christianity is, trusting the Lord, to turn away from unrighteousness to pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace. If we lose that perspective and “disputes” become our central focus, we need to step back and refocus.
Is that what you’re talking about?
Sonia
As usual, I agree with the Team Mom. 
Me too! (agree with Team Mom) I sure can relate Roofus. I’ve found my head is tired and I don’t want to pick through every detail, makes me feel antsy and depressed. It can feel futile with so many opinions out there. Love is what matters and I try to keep this in focus.
I enjoy wrestling over scripture. If I “win” the match imo, I gain confidence in what I believe and usually a little more clarity. But I especially appreciate “loosing” the match imo, because through this I gain a much better understanding of truth!
For me, it was the rejection and irrational attacks that I recieved for just questioning ECT and then subsequently coming to believe in UR, the isolation and lack of fellowship that, well, caused me the most stress and some depression. It was studying scripture and seeing new things, new-to-me, that kept me going though. I get so charged when I see something new, or come to understand something better that it’s like candy to my soul. I can’t count the number of times that I’ve been sorely hurt by something someone close has said or done that I’ve turned to the Lord in prayer and study, only to find that the Lord opens my eyes to see something new-to-me in scripture that recharges me, even makes the pain from the other bearable. So for me, the more “persecution” I’ve recieved for being open and honest about my beliefs, the more I’ve been encouraged to believe those things.
On the other hand, I have limited my “discussions” because of being overwhelmed with so many irrational and unscriptural arguments. It gets tiring going over the same old debates.
I totally sympathize with this thread. And I totally concur with the Team Mum! (Someone shall have to explain this title to me one day).
I think it’s because I’m a mom (6 kids) and part of The Team that tries to hold this forum together, and I’m the token female member of that team. 
Sonia
Hi roofus:
By “this topic” you must mean… UR?? 
Well YES! there is a stress that comes from being the despised and pilloried minority! Being a trailblazin’ pioneer is not supposed to be easy!! (except, if you’ve read “All Shall be Well” you know we merely follow in some pretty big footsteps…)
But there is a word I rarely hear on this site, and it puzzles me deeply. And one would think that this word should be ubiquitous here; so obvious a conclusion for one who holds to UR. (As I recall, you’re not quite there yet??)
And that word is peace…
Peace; commonly associated with what is often (mistakenly I might add) seen as a vestige of legalism. The Sabbath.
Sabbath Peace.
And given that what we believe here (UR) really should result in an intense and deep and inner peace, I guess I’m surprised a bit. Big questions all answered; little questions is all we’re dealing with now…
That is, knowing our origins (Children of THE Father!)
our destiny (companionship with HIm in worship forever)
and thus the meaning of our current existence (we matter! we are loved! seek out your brother and tell THEM ***the Good News!***)
The stress, I think, comes from trying to win. Be sharp, and clever. And slay them with your brilliance…
But in the end, we are saved by a Person; and a lowly and humble One at that. But what a person!!
Savior; Son of God; Prince of Peace; Lamb slain from the foundations…
…OK – I feel a bit less stressed now!
Thanks roofus
Bobx3
This whole search has taught me so much. Taught me that we don’t have infallible interpreting abilities, but that we can be faithful in our interpretations while admitting that we are not able to see the Absolute yet. To be careful not to choose interps to avoid stress or to choose interps out of fear…
still searching, trying to get me out of the way.
Thanks Sonia, I suspected something like that You have a sweet title!
Thanks TV, a good post. It was reassuring. I know it wasn’t directed to me specifically, but I do have peace knowing I am not conditionally loved on my theological nuances. There is some difficulty in really believing that though, because at the core of the UR question is our very faith and the question: “what God am I serving – Yahweh, Molech or a Stoicist-Zeus?”. That’s a stressful question for anyone.
And good follow-up post, Roofus. Good posts all-round!
Sonia, you said: “I think we can let our perspective become warped if we put too much import on these discussions.”
But how could we put “too much” import on the question of what will become of our loved ones?
Bingo.
I’ve laid off debating (or rather “discussing”) for about a year or so now. I must say - I have learned SO MUCH through these discussions and even though some of what I’ve learned did burst some bubbles and kicked over some sacred cows (and that can be traumatic) I want to know what is real and what is just ideas AND to know what the difference is. I wouldn’t trade what I’ve learned for anything. Well, anything except for an absolute, diamond clad guarantee that what I learned was reality and not just some random thought. I would trade it all for that and not much else. 
Ah, yes, that is key isn’t it? I guess from my perspective, I’m already fully convinced. So that’s not an issue for me.
But, when I was in doubt, I spent most of my time studying the scriptures and praying, and not so much time discussing – because I HAD to know and I figured that knowledge could only come from God. I really believe that. It can help to get other people’s thoughts on a matter, but in the end it’s between you and Him.
My answer was aimed more at the general stress of clashing ideas – getting too wrapped up in debates and forgetting to live the life we are called to live.
Sonia
I suppose we could love them more than we love truth, and so love them more than we love God. Non-universalists do have a point about Jesus’ own statement on that topic.
That’s something I try to keep self-critically in mind, because while I was already pretty sure my own most beloved, although not a Christian, was (and is) a sheep, not a goat, becoming a Christian universalist did assure me (for better or for worse) that God would never give up on saving her from any of her sins. More directly, I had entered onto the project of hashing out my own beliefs in a straightline metaphysical argument (which might be accepted, in principle and from publicly accessible data, by any sceptic), for her sake at least as much as for my own. And knowing that she (naturally) wasn’t much fond of hopeless punishment, could have salted the scales against that notion if I let it.
(I suspect she would say I sure didn’t lessen any evangelism after becoming a Christian universalist, for what it’s worth… )
On the other hand, while the result pleased me very much in that regard, it also displeased me rather much in another regard: I am a very zorchy person by nature, and would frankly much prefer to see my enemies crushed. I mean God’s enemies. I still have to keep that self-critically in mind yet another way around, since I fetched up at purgatorial, not at ultra, universalism.
Anyway. I have to remind myself not to love her more than loving truth, fair-togetherness (justice especially for the sake of other people), and morality: more than God Most High.
Fortunately, God made sure things were set up in a way where that choice had to be constantly exercised by me. Not that I always succeeded, and sometimes I willingly failed, but still: the result is that I really can honestly say I love God more than her, without loving her any less (and in fact while loving her increasingly more).
But can you study the Scriptures without relying on others? Translators, others’ interpretation proposed, etc.
I think that we can love God more than our loved ones, but that doesn’t mean that we won’t be emotionally disturbed when they are suffering!
There’s an argument from Beatific Vision Theory that would say otherwise. (I’ve been meaning to do an article on this for a while, but have been too busy.)
i’m sure you’re not in support of such an idea (if i’m understanding it correctly: that seeing God would put all else out of our minds? or cause us to detest sinners?), but without investigating i’d still be tempted to dismiss this based on all the scriptures about loving and caring for those less fortunate, or those being punished or in prison…
wouldn’t any vision of God’s beauty and goodness make us want to extend that to others and not horde it for ourselves? pretty sure once we fulfil the first commandment to Love God with everything, the 2nd commandment to love our neighbours as ourselves is a natural outcome