The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Does Universalism Mean God is a Mother, Not a Father?

In a blog post that I admittedly only skimmed, Mark Driscoll writes:

theresurgence.com/2011/07/13/the-issue-under-a-lot-of-issues

(The entry is in response to this ordeal: jesusneedsnewpr.net/dear-mr-driscoll-a-guest-post/#comments)

My issues with his paragraph are:

1.) I’m partially just annoyed that he felt like he had to get a dig in at universalists on a completely unrelated topic.

2.) Way to imply that universalists think God is a girl.

3.) Those two categories aren’t even mutually exclusive! I certainly think God protects his children from their enemies. I just happen to think that God also loves those enemies, too. (As we’re supposed to.)

4.) “Mother” God sounds an awful lot like a couple of parables I may have heard once or twice.

:unamused:

Personally, I have no issues at all with God having a feminine-person (as well as masculine; a She, to the divine He), but that’s just me I suppose. I figure that the feminine nature of womankind had to come from somewhere, given that womandkind is also made in the “image of God”.

Yeah, I don’t have an issue with God having a feminine-person either (in fact, I’ve heard that the Holy Spirit is referred to in feminine terms in the original languages, but I haven’t actually checked that out for myself yet.) From everything else Driscoll says, though, it’s pretty obvious that HE has an issue with God being at all feminine, which I think is why I find this whole thing frustrating. I feel like he’s setting up a false dichotomy.

I agree, beccca. And in one sense I believe all people are God’s children (The Universal Fatherhood of God). And the “enemies” from which God is ultimately going to protect and save us are sin and death (1 Cor 15:26, 54-56).

I should also add that in one of my favorite verses from Isaiah God is even spoken of as having a mother’s affection toward Israel: “Can a woman forget her nursing child, that she should have no compassion on the son of her womb? Even these may forget, yet I will not forget you” (Isa 49:15).

Jesus called liken Himself to a hen (female) wanting to gather Israel under it’s wings… Personally I think God has all the best qualities of mother & father :slight_smile:

fully agree with this!

i don’t know if there’s any truth in this, but i had heard that some of God’s names in the OT relate to a feminine side?
i’d love this verified but i heard one (i don’t remember which) translated to “many-breasted one”

i definitely think God transcends gender, and that both genders come from “Him”.

He’s chosen to reveal Himself largely as masculine, and that’s ok…but i think the imagery of the hen gathering her chicks is a very strong one too.

I wonder if Mark thinks God was acting as his Father when God elected to persistently save him from his sin. Yes? No? Both? Neither? Maybe?


Mark cannot have known many real mothers, if he thinks they don’t get very hissy about defending their children from enemies, but would rather tolerantly love threats to their children until the threats agree to become her children, too. It’s practically a worldwide narrative and cultural archetype: I would rather face down a Papa Wolf than a Mama Bear!

Keeping that in mind, maybe we should reverse the question: does universalism mean God is the Father of a harem full of children whom He would like to get along with one another because (despite annoyance from this or that wife) they’re all His kids; instead of a Mother Who jealously guards and promotes Her own kids at the expense of everyone else’s kids, treating any other kids as a threat because she’s entirely sure they aren’t Hers and She only loves Her kids?

Because I recall some Biblical imagery along one of those lines… :wink:

you’re on a roll today, Jason! LOL

God is a spirit, neither/both male and female.
Adam and Eve were both created in the image of God.
El Shaddai mean “All sufficient one” and a pretty good case is made by some theologians that it is connected in the Hebrew to the concept of a “full breasted woman”, a nursing mother who is bursting to feed her child. (pardon the graphic nature) She’s so full that if the child just wimpers she starts releasing milk.
God is said to be like a woman searching for the lost coin.
God is like a hen who desires to gather her chicks under her wings.

Though the bible predominantly portrays God in masculine terms, portraying or speaking of God in femine terms is just as biblical. God our Mother is just as valid as God our Father! In fact, some people, women especially who have been abused by their father and male relatives might find relating to God as a Mother more comforting and easier to embrace than as a Father.

Concerning the perseverance of love and whether such is best potrayed by a Father or a Mother, I think both are equally good. It was the Father that kept searching the horizon for his son. And it was the woman who kept searching until she found the lost coin.

As far as Driscolls attitude towards and beliefs concerning UR, … oh well.

I am no fan of Driscoll but he is quite correct. It is universalists or the philosophy of universalism (unitarian universalism) that is pushing ecumenism, “interfaith” “chrislam”, gay and female clergy and yes, even gender neutrality in the bible. Read the “best selling” book, The Shack.

I believe your annoyance is misdirected. It should be taken up with unitarian universalists who corrupt the word of God rather than Mark. Mark is only stating facts and protecting scripture (WHICH IS ALL THAT MATTERS!) and I for one applaud that.

Actually, ecumenism is something God desires. Didn’t Jesus pray that we would all be one even as He and the Father are one. And doesn’t scripture say that God sent Jesus to reconcile all of creation to Himself. Also, I think scripture can stand on its on. It’s not us that need to “protect” scripture, but it’s scripture, the Word, or faith in the Word that protects us like a shield.

having just read the article, i am reminded of Francis Chan’s emotive attempt to get us to buy his new book Erasing Hell…oh wait, i mean his emotive attempt to make sure we get the “hell texts” right…

…this guy mentions at the end, without actually answering any questions (beyond hinting that questions shouldn’t be asked as the answers are already known), that he’s writing a book about it :imp:

also, the article was full of nonsense!

how many years of Biblical interpretation did the Reformers upset? why is it any different that now we’d still be learning and re-evaluating things and questioning fondly held (in this context paternalist) beliefs?

and Sherman, you’ve yet again hit the nail on the head!!!

What part was nonsense? Just one example so I can see another perspective. Imo he is using the book “The Shack” written by a universalist.

That is quite clearly untrue. The reformations “scripture vs tradition” was started to bring the church “BACK” to scripture “solas scriptura” because it was evident the affects of pagan tradition among other things had surfaced in the Catholic church in a negative way. The reformations was not some scriptural revolution on re-evaluating or reinterpreting scripture. Their beliefs were questioned because scripture did not support them.

Sherman I would greatly love to answer you but I fear we would be off topic.

All in all, I’ve wanted God to reveal himself as Mother to me quite often, and quite often as of late. The Father is magnificent, yet I cannot feign false piety and deny that I would like to have God be my divine mom too, given that sons often love their moms very much.

If it is a wicked sin to desire a motherly God, then so be it; I shall be the wickedest sinner for wanting to love God ever deeper and truthfully. There is nothing wrong with wanting a perfect Mother too.

Two quotes from my fave band:

Also… great going yet once again, PASTOR :unamused: :laughing:

This is intriguing… I want to read more…

The Feminine Gender of the Holy Spirit

I’ve heard Christian mystics have concluded that the Holy Spirit is more feminine, which I did as well independently, years ago, based on my own mystical experiences…

Also, El Shaddai may be related to the Hebrew word “shad” for breasts, indicating “Big-Breasted One” symbolizing nourishment - instead of “mountains” - or maybe breasts like mountains! :laughing:

Jesus is even more daring in describing the gospel as leaven that a woman puts into dough, which eventually leavens the whole dough. Not only is God (the chief promoter of the gospel by any standard!) thus compared to a woman, but leaven is typically a Jewish metaphor for sin!

Considering that in Genesis it’s Eve who first falls, dooming all children of hers to inheriting a sin-corrupted, corrupting nature?–that’s one hell of a comparison (so to speak). :wink: