yes, let’s start quitting the obsession with verifying evidence. Then we have plenty of witnesses of ufo abductions and of demonic activities. We should take these witnesses seriously as the New Testament is a document of witnesses.
The UFO stuff reminds me of the X-files.
I can produce witnesses also, to the zombies in Haiti. Which would give credence to the tribulation and the Zombie Apocalypse.
And WHO exactly are these extraterrestrials, if they do exist? Christians? Super geniuses? Demons? Etc.? Perhaps they are Christians and got the message of service wrong. Like those in this Twilight Zone episode.
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OK. So everybody won’t be kept in suspense. Here’s the non-denominational site, Got Question’s take - on this topic.
So, Bombarie. How about taking the arguments made by Got Questions and produce a rebuttal? And for the record, their answers get my 100% - stamp of approval.
This is from the Christian Astrophysicist Hugh Ross. He explores the scientific evidence for there being life on other planets along with UFO abductions. His conclusion: These ET’s are demonic and are associated with the Occult. They can’t be creatures from other planets.
To get everyone in the mood, for this discussion. I present the BEST (???) UFO movie ever made. First some highlights. And for everyone’s delight - the FULL version.
Five minute highlights.
The full 1 hour (approximately) version
I guess I can afford another two cents and pass on my experience pertinent to the topic. I described a demonic encounter in the autobiography I have written for posterity’s sake. The point I’d draw to your attention is how a demonic “presence” was experienced by both me and my wife Alida. When two are in agreement about anything it is more likely to be factual than not.
Quote from ‘The Story of My Life’::
"Returning to the story about the demon, one day I had to visit London for some meeting. I stayed the night with Mam, sleeping in the smallest of the four bedrooms. I woke up in the middle of the night with the strong impression I was not alone in the room. My body was physically shaking all over from head to foot. I remember thinking that it must be the Holy Spirit. I opened my mouth, fully expecting to start speaking in tongues. Nothing came out. The shaking stopped, I rolled over and went back to sleep. I thought I must have had a particularly realistic dream. I said nothing to Alida when I returned to Hogley Farm the next day.
A few weeks later, both Alida and I were visiting Mam together. We were sleeping in the front bedroom on a double bed. In the middle of the night, I woke up with a start. Once again, my entire body was shaking as it had before. At the same time, Alida cried out, her voice quivering with fear. I instinctively reached over and put my arm around her. “There,” she cried, “it’s right beside the bed. It has a flaming finger that’s pointing at you. It is saying it’s going to get you.” We prayed and the presence departed.
"It was a demon that had visited us that night. There may have been a history of demonic activity related to the previous occupant of that house. The next day, I contacted the West View pastor and he came and prayed over the house, asking the Lord for His protection and the removal of that evil spirit. It never returned, to the best of my knowledge.
“Alida and I shared 53 years of our lives together as believers. She was the “help fit for him” that God gave me. She was strong in her faith, much more spiritual and closer to the Lord than I, and strong in her spiritual care of our nine children. She never aspired to, nor wanted, any recognition from the churches we attended. Her home was her mission place. In it she provided a safe haven, comfort, friendship and understanding to any and all who entered it.”
“Alida is now in heaven. Her reward one day will be great. “Her children rise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her” (Prov 31: 28).”
I trust I haven’t broken any rules by recording such personal material. It may prove helpful, assuming it is relevant. On the other hand, it may not.
This threat starter has this premise, on ALL their threads here. That demons are real and can do supernatural stuff. Well, I’ll buy into both those premises. But there are things I won’t buy into.
Like demons are the cause of ALL sickness and illness. What do we think science and nature are for? We live in a fallen world and fallen nature.
or
Demons are the cause of UFOs, UFO visits, etc. I CAN’T even find evidence of this stuff, in the supermarket tabloids.
Well, let’s say that demons are doing these things. And this might even trigger, the tribulation and the Zombie Apocalypse.
But even if demons are as powerful as God - which they are NOT. And they can do ALL these things, like alien visits. Well, many of this UFO stuff - can be explained away by science. Folks can have hallucinations, experience side effects of prescription and recreational drugs, etc.
If a person is possessed by a demon - for example. You will find the Roman Catholic church…if they take the case…to first have medical specialists, rule out organic causes and abnormal psychosis.
Let’s see what the non-denominational site, Got Questions - has to say:
And some popular Christian TV evangelists, have Christian doctrines STRANGER than some presented here. As Matt Slicks article from today’s email mentions at Did Jesus die spiritually?
And Christians have Christ, the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Angels - to call upon. Which is more powerful than any demons.
I think some here - and outside here…want to blame demons for EVERYTHING.
I admit to knowing only a few of the appellations given to the states in the US, but I can reasonably assume that Holy Fool comes from Missouri.
t’s kind of like Scully and Mulder, of the X-files. First I look for a scientific explanation like Scully (a medical doctor and FBI agent) would. And if there isn’t any, then I would look for a supernatural explanation - like Mulder would.
Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. Arthur Conan Doyle
For example, in this Seinfeld episode…perhaps demons were hanging around and caused the “interesting” smell…but I think there is a scientific explanation:
Qaz, I can only presume you believe that my testimony I gave of the experience I related of my wife and me was a figment of two separate imaginations. Not very likely, I submit.
Matthew 18:19-20 - “Again I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father …”.
And I am not at all sure why you appear to derogate the term "evangelical"ˌ
From Websters Dictionary:
ēvanˈjelək(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: evangelical
1.
of or according to the teaching of the gospel or the Christian religion.
Blessings,
Norm
Well, now you have
It would be nonsense if indeed I made that claim, but I didn’t. I was merely pointing out that the testimony of two people should carry very much more weight than one individual.
Obviously, you didn’t read, more likely refuse to believe my original post on this topic. If you won’t accept the word of two eyewitnesses, then I am happy you are not my judge. Paraphrasing Thomas: “unless you produce photographic evidence, I will not believe.”
This will be my last word on the subject. Your intransigence is too depressing.
I still love you as a brother, but you do not make it easy for me to do so.
Norm
In keeping with this topic,…I present this video, as a public service.
qaz I kind of see where you are coming from… But as we have talked, I believe in NDE’s and I totally believe in angels that surround us and take care of us. And I am not opposed to Ghosts, though I think that is different from demons. Demons in Christ’s time were real, and for me, I have to think that it is true if we think that the Bible scripture is a true history of God’s people, but for the demons of Christ’s time to be real today is …well I can’t go there. Mostly because I think that much of the NT verbiage is about the then and there.
Anyway, That is some stuff to chew on. Peace.
Alien abductions are NOT covered, in the world press. They are NOT even covered, in the World’s supermarket tabloids. And I stop into the dollar stores weekly. And glance at the headlines, of the supermarket tabloids on display. And they are NOT taken seriously, by the world’s scientific community. And if there is a small segment - of Alien abductions…most can be explained away, due to scientific causes…Swamp gas, hallucinations, etc. That’s NOT to say that demons might be tricking some people. But really. There’s much more things demons can be up to - then Alien abductions. Like working with the Voodoo clergy in Haiti…to bring about the tribulation and the Zombie Apocalypse.
Note to ALL the purists here. This clip is taken from Zombie land. Which was shown on network TV several times. And is put on YouTube. So it meets their network guidelines.
UFO/aliens are a world wide phenomenon. Many countries have released some of their classified files as well as a portion in the US due to the Freedom of information act. Governments have taken this very seriously. In one of the US files you have a plane chasing a UFO over Iran and trying to fire on it but it would not fire. There are also several people in respectable positions like the former minister of defense for Canada, astronauts, people with nuclear launch codes and responsible for nuclear silos, air traffic controllers, pilots, all people that are very hard to doubt claiming they exist.
Well, let me first post some articles:
The Popular Science article says they exist…But they are NOT green men from mars.
The Sun Tabloid newspaper, thinks they exist.
That’s a CNN article, that doubts the claim.
Of course, for the full story - we turn to Wiki:
All these articles are sampling, of the keywords “Do UFOs exist”.
Well, my father used to own a plastics shop. And I worked there during high school. And there was a minister’s son working there. He did claim to see UFOs. And I believe him. He saw unidentified Flying Objects. They could have been anything. And there are many things to explain them away - besides Aliens from other planets and Demons.
Well, here’s the problem I have. None of the TOP scientists, are speaking definitely on this - in the affirmative. And NONE of the Christians or others, with mystical abilities - have said anything affirmative. So NEITHER science nor spirituality - are CERTIFYING these claims.
Now let’s revisit the non-denominational site, Got Questions:
First, let me quote a bit of science - from them:
1 . Men have sent spacecraft to nearly every planet in our solar system. After observing these planets, we have ruled out all but Mars and possibly a moon of Jupiter as being able to support life.
In 1976, the U.S.A. sent two landers to Mars. Each had instruments that could dig into the Martian sand and analyze it for any sign of life. They found absolutely nothing. In contrast, if you analyzed soil from the most barren desert on earth or the most frozen dirt in Antarctica, you would find it teeming with micro-organisms. In 1997, the U.S.A. sent Pathfinder to the surface of Mars. This rover took more samples and conducted many more experiments. It also found absolutely no sign of life. Since that time, several more missions to Mars have been launched. The results have always been the same.
Astronomers are constantly finding new planets in distant solar systems. Some propose that the existence of so many planets proves that there must be life somewhere else in the universe. The fact is that none of these has ever been proved to be anything close to a life-supporting planet. The tremendous distance between Earth and these planets makes it impossible to make any judgments regarding their ability to sustain life. Knowing that Earth alone supports life in our solar system, evolutionists want very badly to find another planet in another solar system to support the notion that life must have evolved. There are many other planets out there, but we certainly do not know enough about them to verify that they could support life.
Let’s view their theological answers - in part:
If all of creation now suffers under the curse, any life apart from the earth would also suffer. If, for the sake of argument, moral beings do exist on other planets, then they also suffer; and if not now, then someday they will surely suffer when everything passes away with a great noise and the elements melt with fervent heat (2 Peter 3:10). If they had never sinned, then God would be unjust in punishing them. But if they had sinned, and Christ could die only once (which He did on earth), then they are left in their sin, which would also be contrary to the character of God (2 Peter 3:9). This leaves us with an unsolvable paradox—unless, of course, there are no moral beings outside of the earth.
What about non-moral and non-sentient life forms on other planets? Could algae or even dogs and cats be present on an unknown planet? Presumably so, and it would not do any real harm to any biblical text. But it would certainly prove problematic when trying answer questions like “Since all of creation suffers, what purpose would God have in creating non-moral and non-sentient creatures to suffer on distant planets?”
In conclusion, the Bible gives us no reason to believe that there is life elsewhere in the universe. In fact, the Bible gives us several key reasons why there cannot be. Yes, there are many strange and unexplainable things that take place. There is no reason, though, to attribute these phenomena to aliens or UFOs. If there is a discernable cause to these supposed events, it is likely to be spiritual, and more specifically, demonic, in origin.
Just a footnote on science here. I have known 3 men with Ph.D. degrees in physics…who worked for Argonne National Laboratories in Illinois (USA). NONE of them have brought into UFO stuff. And they come from Ivry League schools.
Now I’m NOT saying aliens don’t exist. Nor that demons can’t masquerade as aliens. But for what purpose? IF they are super intelligent beings… like we see in Star Trek shows and movies…Or Star Wars movies. Then won’t they want to communicate with us? Just as we would with them? And wouldn’t they both be good and bad among them, just as we have here on earth? Since we are ALL under fallen nature?
And if they are demons, then why masquerade as aliens? Demons have their hands full, just getting people to commit evil acts. Like you see in the TV show murders, on Investigation Discovery. Or to doubt that God exists, Christ came to redeem humanity, etc.
The best case scenario, is that they are real. And ALL have a sense of humor - like mine. That echos the Holy Foolery tradition. Much like Q, from Star Trek: The Next Generation and Star Trek Voyager.
At least, if a person went to Haiti…and could speak reasonable good French…and went searching for zombies, he or she would find them.
And maybe strike up a romance with them???
“Let’s not look back in anger, or forward in fear, but around in awareness.”-- James Thurber
I think aliens are more believable than demons. It wouldn’t matter anyway, though. If a demon was found in this dimension (supposing they exist) people would just say they were aliens (which, ironically, they technically would be). Likewise if aliens were found, religious people would call them demons. Though, think of this; descendants of ham (Many people thought they were “Blacks” by some religious folk) where thought to have been the spawn of Satan. So, to think that aliens, if found, would cause many religious people to say “Demons!” is enough to tell me the religious mind can be quite sick.
Though I would point out that aliens are more believable than demons because:
- We don’t even know if other dimensions exist. This is metaphysical.
- If life exists here, and we know how vast the universe is from observation, it seems to me just as likely that life has sprung up elsewhere.
Of course, we could be in a computer simulation. You could sort of consider outside this simulation would be God, or gods. The issue I have is that God has all the same problems as non-God. People ask “Where did the big bang come from if not God”? Well, then where did God come from? Typically people say “He always was” and that has to be the weakest argument I have ever heard, I mean, no, not the weakest, the most hypocritical argument. To demand that the big bang had to have had a cause, while saying that God doesn’t have to have a cause is very, very hypocritical. Of course, the opposite is true, but there is where, I think, science is a bit more rational. “We don’t know”. It could be God… It could not have been. We can freely believe in God, and I actually still do, though I don’t know anything about him, if he exists than what he reveals in nature. But nature is, shall we say, not always the nicest thing. The food chain, for example… Sucks to be the on the bottom, huh? The food chain itself is enough for me to the question the orthodox position of who God is. The food chain, on the other hand, is much more explainable if you don’t believe in a God. The data or lack thereof, seems to fit better.
In the end, none of us know. I am actually more at peace about this than ever. All my figuring out of who God is, whether he exists or not, is a relatively fruitless endeavor. Some of us (myself included) spent more time talking about something we don’t know, much less can hardly know properly, if God is as great as we seem to think, from our outward praise. But we comment on things we have no clue about. I just question, even more lately, what is the point is all of these discussions when we know there are not answers? I think we all just like to hear ourselves talk. Yeah, I think that is what it is.
I have a friend whose grandfather who was in the military revealed to his granddaughter on his deathbed that aliens exist. And I personally have seen a grey alien with my own two eyes while I was completely awake.
Here is a highly credible account or a UFO video taped with occupants:
2007 Turkey UFO Video - Kumburgaz UFO OVNI (Digital Master) High Quality version:
Animation of possible ET occupant by The Object Report
At first, the videos were analyzed and made public by the SIRIUS UFO organization, directed by the researcher Haktan Akdogan. This case made big news in Turkey and in other countries as well. It also started a great debate between the official members of the Turkish scientific community. Specifically the NATIONAL COUNCIL FOR THE STUDY OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY (TUBITAK) got interested in analyzing the original footage, with the intention of determining that the video was nothing more than a hoax, gambling on the idea of scale models, toys, or CGI. The original tape was handed to the TUBITAK representatives on live TV in their own headquarters. Once the analysis was concluded, they gave an official report which can be summarized as such:
“The objects observed on the images have a structure made of a specific material and are definitely not any kind of CGI animation or in any means a type of special effects used for simulation in a studio or for video effects. So the conclusion of this report is that the observations are not a model, marquette, or a fraud.” The official report ended with, “it’s concluded that the objects observed have a physical structure and are made of materials that don’t belong to any category of (airplanes, helicopters, meteors, Venus, Mars, satellites, artificial lights, Chinese lanterns, etc.) and that it mostly fits in the category of UFO’s (Unidentified Flying Objects of unknown origin)”. (source: Analysis of the Kumburgaz, Turkey UFO Videos http://archivosovni2.blogspot.com/