Hello all,
I just had a great experience with Brian McLaren. He spoke at our national pastors’ conference for the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in San Diego. I had a chance to visit with him and get some personal time with him, as well as the chance to pose a question to Brian in front of our whole group. I found Brian’s responses to be quite encouraging, and I think the rest of you will as well. So, be encouraged!
Blessings,
Bailey123
P.S. I emailed Brian to ask him if it was OK if I share this reflection from the conference and he replied back, "I’m glad for you to share your reflection paper. Keep up the good work! Warmly, in joy and hope “until” - Brian
So I share this with all of you. You’ll understand why Brian ended with “until” after you read the reflection…
Reflections on 2014 National Disciples Pastors' Conference
So, my trip to the Disciples Pastor’s Conference went really well, really, really well.
I was pretty pumped about it because Brian McLaren was going to be speaking, and I have really enjoyed Brian’s books, so I was looking forward to experiencing Brian in a conference setting where I might actually get to have a conversation with him.
It’s a funny thing. When you read someone’s books you feel like you know them, but then it’s a different kind of experience to actually be with them and be talking with them. There are all kinds of intuitive things that happen at a subconscious level in personal interaction. And when you get to have a real conversation with someone it’s an experience of give and take you just can’t get when reading their book.
Brian’s talks were all around his latest book, We Make the Road by Walking - lot’s of great stuff about the always unfinished business of spiritual formation. The big idea I took away from Brian’s talk was that spiritual formation is happening not just to individual Christians but to Christianity itself. It’s kind of obvious when you think about it for a little bit. Christianity is not what it was years ago, and it is not today what it will be years from now. But it made me realize that I am really a part of shaping the Christian faith whether I am conscious of it or not.
Anyway, my burning issue has to do with God ultimately restoring all of creation back to God’s own self, so that in end we are gathered back home after whatever process of judgment and purification is necessary. You could call this hope of mine, my “little baby” because it means so much to me. So, I’m always a little guarded bringing it up with someone, because I am not sure how they will feel about it.
Back to the conference…
Brian did not speak the first night of the conference. Instead we had a rousing sermon from one of our most gifted preachers, William Lee. Coming out of the black church, Pastor Lee knew exactly how to “bring it” and we were encouraged to re-encounter our spiritual enthusiasm and to “feed Jesus’ sheep” some really good food.
As I reflected on that sermon that evening I began thinking about “What is good spiritual food?” Is it good spiritual food to say to someone, “Good news! God loves you! And so IF you believe the right things about Jesus, and do the right things because of your belief, then you can go to heaven. Otherwise, God will throw you in hell to destroy you or punish you forever.” I started thinking about the gospel of IF vs. the gospel of UNTIL.
That night in my room I wrote the following reflection on my iPad: "The good news is not about me securing a place in the heart of God IF I do something or IF I believe something. The Good News is about realizing that God is irrevocably with all of us regardless. All of us are God’s beloved. The only news that can be called truly good news is the news that God is with UNTIL all things necessary are in place. The only really good news is that God is with us UNTIL God’s perfect loving will, God’s movement for wholeness, has been fully realized. God is with us. There is no IF about it.
The gospel of IF burdens people down, divides humanity into us and them, makes us wonder IF we will ever be worthy. The gospel of IF makes you always wonder IF you have believed enough, or done enough, or been pure enough, to be considered worthy. The gospel of IF is really not any gospel at all.
The gospel of UNITL includes, heals, and restores. God is with us, with humanity, not because of anything we are, but because of everything God is.
The Good News is that God is with and for all of humanity, now, and in all of the ages to come UNTIL, not IF, but UNTIL all of God’s wholeness is being experienced by all of God’s creation."
So that was my middle of the night inspiration.
The next morning I was pumped to see Brian McLaren speak and wanted to get up close to the front of the room. The room was full of round tables. I went up to the front table with a friend, and “lo and behold” sitting at the table was Brian McLaren. There were some open seats. We asked if they were taken. They weren’t. So we sat down. Pretty cool.
Brian’s first talk was about his book We Make the Road by Walking. It was great. But during the talk I was getting my nerve up to tell him about my idea that that that gospel is not about IF but about UNTIL.
After Brian talked, since were at the same table and all, I asked him about it. I said, “Brian, I am trying to find a really easy to understand way of expressing my understanding of the gospel. And I’ve come up with this idea of the Gospel of IF vs. the Gospel of UNTIL.” Feeling like all of this was pretty edgy, I continued on. I said, “I believe the good news is not that God will be with us IF, but that God will be with us UNTIL everything necessary has taken place so that we can be fully reconciled and restored.”
I said this, or something pretty close to it, and then I was expecting Brian to do a little chin scratching. I thought he might reply with a question back to me. After all, this is pretty edgy stuff right?
Instead the response I got from Brian was just a relaxed, immediate affirmation. I think he just smiled and said something like, “Yes. Good. I like it.” He wasn’t nonchalant about it. He was just kind of like, “Sure.” I got the feeling that to him what I had said was something that in his world was just kind of obvious.
On the next day, Brian spoke in the morning again, and this time I got my nerve up to ask a question in front of the whole group. There were about 200 people in the room. And I wanted to get something even a little more challenging out there. So, when we had our discussion time after his talk, I raised my hand, and Brian recognized me.
I started out like this, "Brian, one of the questions we face as Christians is how we want to tell where this whole thing is headed. I’d like to share with you a quote from William Barclay from his Spiritual Autobiography. Barclay said, “I believe implicitly in the ultimate and complete triumph of God, the time when all things will be subject to him, and when God will be everything to everyone (1 Cor. 15:24-28). For me this has certain consequences. If one man remains outside the love of God at the end of time, it means that that one man has defeated the love of God - and that is impossible. Further, there is only one way in which we can think of the triumph of God. If God was no more than a King or Judge, then it would be possible to speak of his triumph, if his enemies were agonizing in hell or were totally and completely obliterated and wiped out. But God is not only King and Judge, God is Father - he is indeed Father more than anything else. No father could be happy while there were members of his family forever in agony. No father would count it a triumph to obliterate the disobedient members of his family. The only triumph a father can know is to have all his family back home. The only victory love can enjoy is the day when its offer of love is answered by the return of love. The only possible final triumph is a universe loved by and in love with God.”
After I finished reading this quote I said, “So this is the way William Barclay told his view of where the Christian faith is headed. On the other hand, the biggest selling Christian books today, like the Harbinger, tell us that God is punishing America for its sins and that the future is going to be a terrible judgment on this sinful world.”
And then I asked Brian, “So how do you think about all of this?”
Brian’s answer was more affirming than I could have possibly imagined. I thought he would find himself maybe somewhere in between Barclay’s optimism and the radically negative end times books that are so common today.
Brian started his remarks like this, “First of all, thank you for sharing that beautiful quote from Barclay. I hadn’t heard that before. It could serve as the benediction for this conference.” And then he went on to talk about the challenge of Christianity moving in a better direction as we talk about the end of things, or where all of this is headed.
But it was hard for me to concentrate on what he was saying because he had just said that my favorite quote from Barclay, one that he apparently had never heard before, could have well served as the benediction for the conference! Wow!
So, I just ended up feeling pretty darned affirmed by my whole conference experience with Brian McLaren. God bless him.
Just one more thing I thought was cool. After his last speaking session he was headed to the airport. As he was leaving, since I was at his table, he walked passed me. He extended his hand to me, we shook hands, and as we shook hands he looked at me with a smile and said, “See you on down the road.”
The videos & posts I’ve read of Brian of the years have been edifying so I’m glad to hear that he’s just as genuine in person.