The Evangelical Universalist Forum

EVANGELICAL?

Let me put my cards on the table and say that I have over the years been increasingly open to what historically has been called “The Greater Hope” but in the process I must admit that I have felt increasingly uneasy calling myself an “Evangelical” or even a “Protestant” because these rather old-fashioned and rather narrow Tribal self-identifications are actually very unbiblical and contrary to the spirit of the Gospel. See Corinthians 3:21-22 .

A sub-theme running through all the recent criticisms of Rob Bell is basically an angry demand to determine “Is he one of US or not?”

Once the more zealous heresy hunters are satisfied that Bell is NOT ‘One of Us”, and come to a consensus on that… the game will be over and Bell will be safely quarantined outside the Camp with the Liberals or the Catholics.

This is my story:

I was for many years a 5 point TULIP Calvinist (having given my life to Christ at L’abri in 1967) but gradually began to see things differently a number of years ago, not only through reading some of the ancient Church Fathers but also having spent 5 years within the Russian Orthodox Church. I found myself growing into a different perspective.

Once that new perspective became more clear to me I could that the Augustinian-Calvinistic theological scheme distorts biblical truth and attempts to make intellectually and doctrinally clear areas which in the bible are in reality (and I believe by divine intention) shrouded in mystery and paradox.

One of the fruits of my changed perspective was that I could see more clearly that when Calvinists speak of ‘standing for the truth’ and ‘defending the truth’ what they actually mean is that they are defending the interpretation of the bible that their systematic doctrinal scheme leads them to.

But I think the biblical evidence that God will ultimately be successful in saving sinners and transforming the world through Christ is in fact a lot stronger than many Evangelicals are making out and a whole lot stronger than the Augustinian-Calvinist scheme could possibly allow. Calvinists are compelled to read the biblical text in a certain kind of way, in ways consent within their systematic theology. So it is usually (almost always) their doctrinal system they are defending, not the truth of the Word of God itself. Of course any Calvinist worth his or her salt will angrily deny this and will see difference between the two.

From the historic Evangelical point of view either God is just not powerful or wise enough to bring his Plan to a successful conclusion and our free will can ‘trump’ God’s will for us…

…OR, following the more austere Augustine/Calvin line, you can resort to the totally unbiblical theory of a ‘limited atonement’ and a ‘double predestination’ which involves, the idea of of a predetermined group of people called the ‘reprobate’. According to Calvinism God has creating a whole class of people ‘before the creation of the world’ with the express intention of damning and torturing them forever to display has wrath and anger against sin. This is the purpose for which He has created them.

I find both these options or ‘interpretations’ very unbiblical.

I just do not recognise this to be the God of the Bible nor do I see the real Gospel in these kinds of speculation or in these specific doctrinal theories.

Paul says in no uncertain terms on Corin 15:21-22

21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam ALL die, so in Christ ALL will be made alive.

Also in II Peter 3:9: “The Lord . . . is not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance”;

I Timothy 2:4: God “desires ALL men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth”;
Romans 11:32: “For God has imprisoned ALL in disobedience so that he may be merciful to ALL”;

and in the OT
Ezekiel 33:11: “As I live, says the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn away from his way and live . . …”

All of these texts seem do suggest that God sincerely wants to achieve the reconciliation of all sinners and all things to Himself, and that His failure to achieve that end would be, in some important sense, a tragic defeat for God Himself and an indication that He was just not wise or powerful enough to carry through his plan of ultimate redemption. I do not recognise the God of the Bible in that view either.

There are three core statements of the bible which just cannot all be true…or reconciled together within the Evangelical world-view. Following Tom Talbott here:

(1) It is God’s redemptive purpose for the world (and therefore his will) to reconcile all sinners to himself;

(2) It is within God’s power to achieve his redemptive purpose for the world;

(3) Some sinners will never be reconciled to God, and God will therefore either consign them to a place of eternal punishment, from which there will be no hope of escape, or put them out of existence altogether.

If this is indeed an inconsistent set of propositions (asTom Talbott points out), as I also believe it is, then at least one of these propositions is false.

Calvinists reject proposition (1); Arminians reject proposition (2); and universalists reject proposition (3).

But in fact we can also find all kinds of support, both direct and explicit as well as indirect and implicit in the whole sweep of the Bible narrative for each of the three propositions.

This I think is the ‘deep’ background of the present discussion at least insofar as it seeks to be a respectful and responsible discussion.

But I am aware that giving up the label and tribal identification of being a card-carrying Protestant - Calvinist or Arminian or Universalist Evangelical may be just a step too far outside many peoples comfort zones.

Love in Jesus,

Bill Gordon

Great post, great question :slight_smile:

Identifying labels can sometimes be helpful and sometimes unhelpful. Sometimes they can summarize what someone believes, to make it quicker/easier to communicate and get on the same wavelength. Sometimes they can just make people put you in a box and not communicate with you.

If I just called myself a universalist, people usually assume that I’m a pluralist and don’t care about Jesus, the Bible, truth, justice, evangelism, the trinity, etc.

If I call myself an evangelical universalist, hopefully they get some indication that I do care about Jesus, the Bible, truth, justice, evangelism, the trinity, etc. Obviously it’s far from a precise science, but that’s at least why I have been.

What do you think?

Thank you Bill for your comments. Glad you’re here. I also have come to appreciate a lot about the Orthodox the past few years. It’s amazing how often the entire Eastern tradition just gets left out of discussions of key topics.

Tom

Hi Alex…not sure how the “quotation app” works… at any rate you say

[dentifying labels can sometimes be helpful and sometimes unhelpful. Sometimes they can summarize what someone believes, to make it quicker/easier to communicate and get on the same wavelength. Sometimes they can just make people put you in a box and not communicate with you.]

True enough. I suppose it depends on who you are talking to and in many ways to say one is an "evangelical universalist’ no normal social situations would be as extreme as announcing that one was a an atheistical fundamentalist: either a conversation starter or stopper depending on who is present.

I worked in the mental heal field for years and found that diagnostic labels can be helpful in some contexts and very unhelpful in others as the person is so much more than the diagnosis.

I think I don’t like the idea of defining who I am as a Christian with the term Universalist because who I am as a Christian is so much more than that. Also because of the ‘heresy issue’ and the combative mood of the self-appointed guardians and defenders of what amounts to a highly sectarian orthodoxy…one could be inviting a doctrinal punch on the nose and some sort of ‘scene’.

I personally am fed up with theological controversy (having been a combative TULIP Calvinist for the first 10 years of my Christian Life)…and such controversies tend to bring out the worst side of me not the best.

If pushed I think my preferred way of responding is simply to say that I am ‘open to the Greater Hope’

Because of the rather nasty controversy being opened up by Bells’ book LOVE WINS (I have not read it yet) I can see already that handling the controversy in a local church context will require considerable political skills. I have already had some constructive conversations with our church elders but this is not something to be ‘pushed’ or become dogmatic about.

Personally I think discovering the Greater Hope is a spiritual process involving a deeper relationship with God and God’s Word and is not something essentially cognitive or narrowly ‘doctrinal’ in the Reformed sense.

Hi Bill,
Nice post! I agree that there are problems with labels. As soon as we put a label on something, we can set it aside and stop trying to figure it out. “Evangelical Universalist” is pretty good as far as that goes, because it makes people stop and say, “What?!” But I don’t generally go around identifying myself that way. I just say I’m a Christian–a student of Christ.

First and foremost we should be Christians, not doctrine warriors. The heart of Christianity is to do the teachings of Christ, not to argue about them. But the arguing is not necessarily bad either – it can be a great opportunity to practically live out our Christianity – can we disagree without biting and devouring one another? Do we remember that we have One Teacher and we are all brethren? – children together in the house of God – and we should conduct ourselves so as to bring honor to our Father.

Good thoughts!
Sonia

Not sure if this is totally on-topic, but it reminded me of a recent intense conversation I had with my very evangelical brother-in-law, who’s heard me talk about “universalism” and got really concerned for the state of my soul. After I hashed it out with him, he was very relieved to hear that the actual “gospel” I believe in and share is pretty much the same as his (ie, I wasn’t a “heretic”).

But he made a good point: as soon as someone mentions “universalism,” all evangelicals immediately turn against whatever else comes out of the mouth of the “universalist.” For good or bad, “universalism” has come to be associated with so many other things than the Bible’s assurances of God turning all people in repentance to Him.

So, should we try to coin a new phrase or label for a biblically-solid, evangelical universalism? I know Parry tried to do that with the very phrase “evangelical universalist,” but I’m finding that the word “universalist” itself causes (rightly or wrongly) such an intense negative reaction, that I think I’d be open to trying to find another way to explain/label my belief in God’s sure saving work for all people.

On a side note, I’ve tried the “oh, I just believe what the Bible says about that,” but everyone assumes that THEY believe what the Bible says about it, too, so there’s no room for further discussion, usually.

So, I guess in my perfect world, I could use a word or small phrase to effectively communicate what I believe to a majority of evangelicals that would pique their interest in actually hearing my beliefs and encourage them to respond in a productive way, instead of turning them completely against me or inspiring them to argue against something I don’t even believe. :unamused:

Does that make sense? :mrgreen:

I have settled on the phrase "THE GREATER HOPE…because it is gentle, slightly ambiguous and requires unpacking and does not demand hard and sharp doctrinal formulation!

After I’d already posted, I noticed where you said that. Not too shabby. :smiley: I may have to try that…

I think on my facebook I put for my “religious views” something about “God’s apokatastatic kingdom,” but no one’s asked me about that. I like the idea of God being a king whose basis for rule is his reconciling/restoring work, so his kingdom is a reconciled and reconciling kingdom. Hmm, “I believe in the reconciling reign of the King of kings”…that’s not bad either… just thinking out loud here. :mrgreen:

Great post Bill.

I agree that labels can be sticky :laughing: I like “Christian Reconciliationist” based on II Cor. 5:18-21 myself.

That’s good too NealF.

On my Facebook Profile I take about 10 big steps back and under the Religion category just say:

TOTAL

:laughing:

[facebook.com/billgordonlifecoaching]

There are a few ways, you can select the text you want to quote and press the “Quote” button or type the following:[code]

[/code]Whatever you put between the “” becomes the text before “wrote:”

It totally agree.

Definitely, first and foremost, I should be seen as a Christian, although that itself has many negative connotations for some people :frowning:

Yes, more so in the US than here, thankfully, but I can see that being an issue.

I guess my only reservation with that, for me personally, is that I’m more certain than hopeful. i.e. I see God’s universal reconciliation almost as certain as the fact Jesus rose from the dead (obviously no one can be 100% certain of anything, but I think I’m as certain as I can be).

I totally agree it will require diplomacy, love, patience and tact, however, I also think that it’s a conversation that we need to have, even if that means being thrown out of the “church”. It sounds like you’ve already struct the right balance, as you’ve been able to have some constructive conversations :sunglasses:

Amen!

Amen!

A few have been suggested, but it’s remarkably hard to come up with something clear/simple and to make it stick. Not say Evangelical Universalist" is necessarily clear either :unamused:

Again I think the issue is one of our personal identity…

If I declare myself to be a) a 5 point Calvinist 2) an evangelical Christian, 3) a Baptist, etc I is inviting all kinds of stereotyped preconceptions and misconceptions as to what these labels might mean. Christian Universalism is a very hot potato at the moment.

When I ran a drug rehab years ago we had a lovely Christian lady working for us who was from the Czech Republic and a lively Roman Catholic with a clear ‘born again’ experience, moving in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, submitted to Christ and waling the Christian path and so on.

Whilst with us she did some research on drug rehabs in the UK based on Christian principles (so-called Christian Philosophy Houses by the Social Services) which involved meeting the people involved and staying in their centres for a few days.

In practice most of these Christian Centres (at the time) were solidly Protestant borderline Fundamentalist.

So Lucie (that is her name) initially and rightly introduced herself as a fellow Christian tio these good pious people and even had times of fellowship with them there but when asked about her own religious background she always unashamedly and cheerfully said she was raised Roman Catholic.

The staff’s initial reaction would be that of alarm and people would say things like " We are so sorry to hear that, that must have been awful for you". When Lucie confessed that she was grateful for that and as a Christian remained a committed and loyal Catholic…that just did not compute. From that point on it was if fellowship was broken…from there side not from Lucie 's. I shall always remember that and still find the example instructive.

So we have to be careful about embracing religious labels, especially today as such labels encourage a kind of Christian religious Tribalism and Tribal Warfare. I have seen enough of that in my life as a Christian and am fed up with it.

I no longer even self-identify with being a Protestant so to call myself an Evangelical Universalists would not make any sense.

I am a Christian. I follow to the best of the ability in the Way of Christ. I love the Scriptures…and I am very open to The Greater Hope taking it even as a kind of hermeneutic principle by which to read some of the more difficult Biblical texts.

Sonia: The heart of Christianity is to do…

Tom: Yes! You go girl. You preach that sermon!

Tom