The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Eye for an Eye


I know this guy was covered before, in another forum thread. But this comes today, in the Patheos Evangelical newsletter. While LLC likes the Old Testament…and its “continuation”, in the life of Jesus…This guy takes the opposite approach.

What’s more relevant for me, is this article. That brings Native American Catholics, in a mass.

I hope the Church of the East (Eastern Orthodox) meets the Church of the West (Roman Catholic)…along with the Eagle (Red Road, Native American spirituality) meets the Condor (Native American, Amazon Road spirituality).


Davo, The right hand of God is the power and authority of the Holy Spirit. No, Jesus was not the only at the His right hand.
Deut. 33:2-3 “The Lord came from Sinai, and dawned on them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran, and He came with ten thousands of saints; from his right hand came a fiery law for them. Yes , He loves the people; all His saints are in Your hand.”

Isaiah 63:11-12 “Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in them, who led them by the right hand of Moses with His glorious arm, dividing the water before them to make for Himself an everlasting name.”
Read the Old Testament.

Bob, The rulers of Israel at that time were claiming to be the sons of Abraham, sons of God, and heirs to the throne. But, they were not. Sons of Abraham are those who follow the Spirit of God and obey His voice just as the father Abraham did. As Genesis 18: 19 says “For I have known him, in order that he may command his children and his household after him, that they keep the way of the Lord, to do righteousness and justice.”


LLC, you can cite and tout the old covenant writings all you want, but everyone remains flabbergasted that you appear to think this justifies you in just ignoring the reality that the N.T. apostles regularly assert their belief that it’s crucial to recognize that Jesus is LORD. You appear non-responsive to what is an observation of a plain reality that exegetes across the whole theological spectrum recognize.


This article from today’s Patheos, Evangelical newsletter - might be of interest here.


Yet another perfect example LLC of the weakness of your position… to back-up your doubtful claim that Christ alone is not seated at… “the right hand of God” — a euphemism for divine authority you cite two texts mentioning Israel being… “in His hand” — a euphemism for favoured protection (Jn 10:28-29). And the other being led by the delegated hand of Moses under the auspices of His righteous arm, i.e., His power. NEITHER example places ANYONE at the right hand of God; a position Christ finally came to through his obedience, being appointed both Lord and Christ.

That YOU can see your proposition in those text BUT NOT see other EXTREMELY PLAIN TEXTS to the contrary demonstrates one thing alone… you will not see what you don’t want to believe — sorry for being too blunt.


Davo, we all know that God does not have physical hands. God’s right hand denotes the power, authority and strength of the Spirit. Did Moses have power over the enemy, setting captives free by his own hand or by the power and authority of the Holy Spirit? David was also granted to sit at the right hand of God, and so are we. As Romans says, if we are Abraham’s children, then we are co-heirs with Christ, and all that is God’s is ours as well. Rev. 3:21 “To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne.”


Hum! Well, what do you know? The non-denominational site Got Questions, has some input - on God’s right hand.


Given you are at God’s right hand right now, how does all “the power, authority and strength of the Spirit” work through you… like what does that look like?


Davo, Gal. 5:13 " serve one another humbly in love."

Using your God given talents you " offer your bodies as a living sacrifice holy and pleasing to God. This is true and proper worship." ( Romans12:1)

“Fear the Lord and serve Him faithfully with all your heart.”

Love God, walk according to is ways, follow His commands and serve Him with all your heart, mind and soul.

Produce the fruit of the Spirit.

As Luke 6:40 says "A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher.
How can one servant of God be exalted above another servant of God?


Bob, you said:
Along with every other translator, I see Hebrews 3 is explicitly emphasizing, “Fix your thoughts on Jesus.” Though I’m not a Trinitarian, this plain N.T. emphasis makes your devotion to denying that Hebrews and all N.T. writers see Jesus as superior to the prophets and apostles interestingly iconoclastic. Kudos for a bold effort.

Hebrew 3 says, “Jesus was faithful to Him who appointed Moses was also faithful ( to Him who appointed Him) in all His house.”

John 7:18 states “He who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory. But He who seeks the glory of THE ONE who sent Him is a man of truth.”

John 8:54 “If I glorify Myself, my glory means nothing. THE ONE who glorifies Me is my Father of whom you say “He is our God”.”

John 8:50 “I do not seek My own glory. There is ONE who seeks it…”

God is the One who sent Jesus. God is the One who sent Moses. Both were glorified in God and God was glorified in them.
God is the One who is counted more worthy of glory than the ones who are sent.

Davo you said:
Jesus through OBEDIENCE was APPOINTED Israel’s Messiah and the world’s Lord (Acts 2:36)… Moses was not

Hebrews 3:2 states that “Moses was faithful ( to the One who sent Him) in all His house.” Faithful means obedient.


Moses was never made to be Israel’s Messiah nor the world’s Lord — Jesus was.


Messiah- a person anointed/ appointed by God and given authority and power, qualified for a specific office, leader of a particular group or cause, savior or liberator of a group of people.

Lord- someone having power, authority or influence,-master or ruler.

Exodus 7:1 "So the Lord said to Moses; “See I have made you as God to Pharaoh.”

Yes, Moses was Israel’s Messiah and the world’s Lord. Hebrews 3 is emphasizing the fact that men do not glorify themselves or make themselves Lord. Those who do are not to be trusted. We glorify and honor God( the One) by obeying His word and in turn we are glorified.


No sorry… you‘re just desperately making this stuff up.

Moses was NEVER appointed Lord of the WORLD… Jesus was. Moses would have taken the same position of Jesus in saying John the Baptist at least was the greatest ever born among women, and what did John the Baptist say of Jesus in comparison to himself… “He must increase, but I must decrease” — with regards to the biblical text your position is untenable.


I still believe that LLC is a advocate, for Judaism in Disguise. Or if we substitute Judaism for Judy - in this song…we can all sing along.


Davo, you said:
No sorry… you‘re just desperately making this stuff up.

Moses was NEVER appointed Lord of the WORLD… Jesus was.

Moses and Jesus were both sent to do the same thing, to baptize people in the Holy Spirit and raise them up according to the ways of God.

Deut. 28:9-13 "The Lord will establish you as a holy people to Himself, just as He has sworn to you, if you keep the commandments of the Lord your God and walk in all His ways. Then all the peoples of the earth shall see that you are called by the name of the Lord and they shall e afraid of you. And the Lord will grant you plenty of goods, in the fruit of your body, in the increase of your livestock, and in the produce of your ground, in the land of which the Lord swore to your fathers to give you. The Lord will open to you His good treasure, the heavens, to give the rain to your land in it’s season, and to bless all the work of your hand. And the Lord will make you the head and not the tail; you shall be above only, and not beneath, if you heed the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you today, and are careful to observe them.

God appointed Moses as ruler and was given power over all things.
As Act 7:35 says “This Moses whom they rejected, saying, “Who made you a ruler and a judge?” is the one God sent to be a ruler and deliverer by the hand of the Angel who appeared to him in the bush.”

HFPZ, Moses was not of the Jewish faith. He was Christian.


Actually, it depends upon one’s perspective. Moses could be Jewish, Christian , Muslim, Mormon or Bahai - depending on one’s “perspective”.

“Some days there won’t be a song in your heart. Sing anyway.”-- Emory Austin


HFPZ, Moses was Christian as 1Cor. 10:1-4 “Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food( the bread of heaven) and all drank the same spiritual drink . For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.”

Jer. 7:22 " For in the day I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices."

If Moses was the voice of God, and God did not speak to the fathers concerning such things then these commands came from someone other than Moses.

John 7:22 “Moses therefore gave you circumcision ( Not that it was from Moses , but from the fathers).” Moses gave them the circumcision of the heart, not literal circumcision.


Again it depends on your perspective. As Moses is also in the Muslim, Bahai and Mormon scriptures. I take it you DON’T agree, with their perspective on Moses. Just as you DON"T agree, with those Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Protestant Church’s (and those on this forum) perspective’s on Christ. You are doing your own thing. It’s cool, as long as you claim it.

In fact, the LDS Church has a scriptural component - devoted to Moses

Here’s Moses in Islam

So essentially you are saying, that the Christian churches and theologians teachings on Christ are wrong. And I assume you would say that Mormonism, Islam and the Bahai faith, don’t have a valid scriptural component on Moses.

Gee. I look at some of the theological and philosophical views, presented on this forum. And then folks have the nerve, to think I’m strange…when I present my theory… that the ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE, is the most probable - end-times tribulation scenario.


I believe that God was so stern in the o.t. to give contrast to the new testament.

One could not appreciate His mercy without first knowing His wrath.


Just a footnote here. Since you take a deterministic approach to scripture. There is a Christian theologian, who also is a bible translator. He has a website and Bible. And believes in a no-free-will approach to theology. Another chap here tried to clone his ideas. He did a poor job of “selling” them. But you might want to check this theologian and translator out.