Since every one among hundreds of translators reads these verses as pointing to Jesus, that’s a curious interpretation of the words, “this one was counted worthy of greater honor than Moses.”
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Bob, To me, the One in Hebrews 3 clearly refers to God alone, the Holy ONE of Israel, to whom Moses and Jesus were both faithful servants. Neither Moses nor Jesus built the house, but were building their houses upon what God has already built, as it is He who laid the foundations of the heavens and the earth and established the ways of all things in the beginning. From what I understand, all servants who obey His word and belong to the kingdom of God are equal, so that no one can boast. These glorify the One true God and He glorifies them, but the only ONE who is superior and to whom all glory belongs is God Himself who is not a man, but a Spirit who dwells inside. Eph. 3:20 " Glory belongs to God whose power is at work in us."
HFPZ, From what I understand, all who follow the One true God, speak the same words, as we are not to add or subtract from them. If the word is different, then it is of another god. what I am suggesting is that Judaism was not the faith of the fathers Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc.etc. or Moses, just as in my example of the Catholic church who claimed to have come from Jesus. However, their teachings are not the same.
Along with every other translator, I see Hebrews 3 is explicitly emphasizing, “Fix your thoughts on Jesus.” Though I’m not a Trinitarian, this plain N.T. emphasis makes your devotion to denying that Hebrews and all N.T. writers see Jesus as superior to the prophets and apostles interestingly iconoclastic. Kudos for a bold effort.
Jesus was both a prophet and an apostle as well. From what I understand, when we obey the word of we are all one in the Spirit of God, and all of One God
Hebrews 2:11 “For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren.”
Romans 8:16-17 “The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God and if children , then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.”
Jesus was neither superior to the true prophets of old nor to the true prophets and apostles who came after Him. They were all giving their lives to teach and do God’s will.
LLC, this is getting too silly (or too irreverent).
Apparently you do not believe that Jesus is God, the Son. But even Unitarians in this forum recognize that Jesus was a sinless sacrifice, and that no one will ever compare with him!
Acts 2:36 “God has made this JESUS both LORD and Christ”
Romans 10:9 “If you confess JESUS is LORD… you will be saved.”
1 Cor. 8:6 “There is but one LORD, JESUS Christ, through whom all things came and through whom We live.”
2 Cor 4:5 “We do not preach ourselves, but JESUS as LORD.”
This discussion brings to mind, an article I received today - from Patheos Evangelical newsletter. I also receive their Catholic newsletter.
You are right that He is incomparable!
I, also, do not believe Jesus is “God the Son.” We find the expression “God the Father” throughout the New Testament, but not once do we find “God the Son.”
Rather, Jesus is the Son of God—indeed the only Son of God (John 1:14, 3:16, 3:18, Heb 11:17, 1 John 4:9)
This fact implies that He is divine—the ONLY divine Person other than the Father. The son of a man is human; the Son of God is divine. For this reason it is ludicrous to put Him on a par with the ancient prophets and with the apostles.
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Yes indeed!
“…and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.” — “…and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.” — “By so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant. … having obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.” — “…consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, … this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses,…” — “For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.”
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Hermano, I believe there is only One God whom Jesus obeyed.
Bob, I think the scriptures are clear in that one has to do more than this in order to be saved.
Acts 3:19 “Repent and be converted that your sins may be blotted out.”
Paidion, you said:
Rather, Jesus is the Son of God—indeed the only Son of God
Jesus was not the only Son of God.
Exodus 4:22 “Israel is my son, My firstborn.”
Psalm 2:7 'The Lord has said to Me (David), “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.”
Romans 8:14 “For all who are led by the Spirit of God are Sons of God.”
Jesus was begotten the day the He received the Holy Spirit and obeyed God’s word.
Davo, Romans 10:6-8 says this: “But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, saying, “The word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart”. That is, the word of faith that we preach”
If this is the word of faith that the apostles were preaching then Moses was obviously preaching the same because they’re quoting his words. In Deut.18:18 God said to Moses “I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren , and will put my words in His mouth , and He will speak to them all that I command.” “Like you” means equivalent, not superior.
Acts 3: 24 “Yes, you are sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God made with our fathers…”, which was everlasting.
LLC… for nothing more than positional sake you pedantically ignore ALL THOSE TEXTS demonstrating Christ’s supreme work and position — “like you” did NOT mean ‘equivalent’ as you say, but rather… one LIKE Moses who was called, appointed and anointed. Jesus through OBEDIENCE was APPOINTED Israel’s Messiah and the world’s Lord (Acts 2:36)… Moses was not — Jesus was superior to all, and the likes of Moses or Elijah would have been the first to acknowledge such (Lk 9:30-31, 35)!
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Here’s a song, for ALL of us here - who see Christ’s “superiority”.
Your epistemology is unclear to me. I post numerous texts that contradict your claims, and assert that Jesus alone is Lord. You appear to respond by arguing such texts assert things that aren’t true, and proceed to list texts which state ideas that you affirm.
I’m o.k. if you are acknowledging that you see the Bible saying conflicting things. Are you demonstrating, as it appears, that you believe one needs to wisely choose texts when one asserts what “the Bible” teaches, and that you believe your own choices of texts is superior to the wider traditions?
Finally. This came in today’s email. From the non-denominational site - Got Questions. It might clear up LLC’s “confusion”.
And sometimes I come across theological changes, that TRULY shock me. Like this article, from this week’s Patheos Catholic newsletter:
Apparently you do not believe the scriptures I quoted that state that Jesus is the ONLY Son of God.
Here they are again:
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
1John 4:9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
If you cannot accept the plain words of Scripture, then there is no basis on which to dispute with you.
Davo, you said:
LLC… for nothing more than positional sake you pedantically ignore ALL THOSE TEXTS demonstrating Christ’s supreme work and position — “like you” did NOT mean ‘equivalent’ as you say, but rather… one LIKE Moses who was called, appointed and anointed. Jesus through OBEDIENCE was APPOINTED Israel’s Messiah and the world’s Lord (Acts 2:36)… Moses was not — Jesus was superior to all, and the likes of Moses or Elijah would have been the first to acknowledge such (Lk 9:30-31, 35)!
“Like you” means having the same characteristics or qualities. As Hebrews 3 states Moses was faithful to the One who appointed Him, just as Jesus was also faithful to the One who appointed Him.
Jesus says in John 7:16-18 " My teaching is not Mine but is from the One who sent Me. He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory, but He who seeks the glory of the one who sent Him is true."
Moses was not speaking from himself, nor was he seeking his own glory. He was following the Holy Spirit.
Isaiah 63:11-12 " Then he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people saying: “Where is He who brought tem up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he who put His Holy Spirit within them, who led them by the right hand of Moses, with His glorious arm…”
As for Elijah, Jesus compares Himself to Elijah as one and the same in Matt. 17:11-12. " Elijah truly is coming first and will restore all things. But I say to you Elijah has come already , and they did not know him…" And no, Jesus was not speaking of John the Baptist as Elijah because he was not like Elijah; Jesus was.
Apparently, you do not believe the scripture which state otherwise. In the beginning God made Adam in his own image and he was the son of God. I also mentioned Exodus 4:22, Psalm 2:7 and Romans 8:14.
Bob, We are not to give God lip service.
I’m happy LLC can set us straight. Perhaps the apostles and Paul…as well as the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and Protestant churches…along with members on this forum - are ALL wrong about Christ’s “superiority”. It’s within the realm of possibility, that LLC might be right. And it’s also within the realm of possibility…that my theory regarding the Zombie Apocalypse…as the most probable, end times tribulation scenario - IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
LLC, What does your response have to do with whether the apostle is or is not affirming that “Jesus is LORD,” or that this belief is central to the N.T. apostles? No one here construes this text to argue that lip service is fine. Do you actually see Paul talking about lip-service in this affirmation?
Bob, From what I understand, one must follow the teachings of Jesus to be saved. What I’m saying is that Jesus was not superior to the fathers. Jesus was not standing above Moses and Elijah on the Mount. He was raised up and joined with them at the right hand of God. Had the people followed the teachings of Abraham, Moses, the prophets etc.etc., they would have been saved as well. Jesus did not create Israel. Abraham built his house upon the Rock/ Spirit of God/ Divine Law and principles of life etc. What I believe the Bible is saying is that the Christian faith did NOT grow out of Judaism, but that Christianity WAS the faith of the fathers. Judaism was a going astray from this faith. It was a branch that needed to be pruned.
Phil 2:9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,… — including that of Moses & Elijah
Eph 1:20-21 …which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. — ONLY Jesus is seated at His right hand!
LLC… it doesn’t matter how many times you exclaim “from what I understand” all the texts everyone keeps showing you are screaming something quite other than the avoidant conclusions you keep manufacturing — why not just listen to the texts?