The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Faith- JC 1st human to utterly trust God's life in him

Studies Books
#1

Hi Revtweedy and all good folks on the Forum,

How about the above as a thread, an abbreviated statement in one of Papa’s conversations with Mackenzie in Paul Young’s book the Shack which I have recently finished reading?

Here is the full relevant extract from the book:

P99 Papa goes on to explain about Jesus:
“……Jesus is fully human. Altho he is also God, he has never drawn upon his nature as God to do anything. He has only lived out of his relationship with me, living in the very same manner that I desire to be in relationship with every human being. He is just the first to do it to the uttermost – the first to utterly trust my life within him, the first to believe in my love and goodness without regard for appearance and consequence”. Mack: “ So, when he healed the blind?”. Papa: “He did so as a dependent, limited human being trusting in my life and power to be at work within him. Jesus had no power within himself to heal anyone.”

I am no theologian myself but for the last few months enjoy following the forum after discovering at the early age of 75 that I have always by and large been a Universalist all my life.

With cheers and prayers and thanks to all !

Michael in Barcelona

#2

Welcome Michael, I think maybe I was too just way to afraid to admit it. First to myself and now to others. Yep I think it ultimately comes down to learning to trust. I’ve been reading Unspoken Sermons, taking the advise of Jason here on the boards and have been amazed at how he seemed to really trust Father.

#3

Thank you Nimblewell! Yes that was my case too though I had not heard of the term Universalist/ism until a year or so ago, most of my life I was that way inclined but had doubts until Revtweedy got me to read Derek Flood which I found truly amazing and sorted out so many of my questions and ended in giving me great joy and a big step forward!

Have a good weekend!

Michael in Barcelona

#4

i think this makes alot of sense…Hebrews tells us that Jesus didn’t count equality with God something to be grasped, so He emptied Himself…Kenosis, i believe, is the term (minus the funky Greek characters).

there are times when Jesus could see into the hearts of His opponents…whether that was a keen eye to spot people whispering, a keen ear to hear what was being whispered, a sharp mind that could anticipate what they were saying, or the gift of the word of knowledge…well only He knows really.

the possibility was raised on another thread (i think) that it’s possible that He even emptied Himself of alot of knowledge. ie, rather than knowing how He had made the whole universe, He understood it as any man of His time would. This might explain how He dealt with mental illnesses that appeared to be demonic possession. however, of course, this is just conjecture…demonic possession and some old testament stories we sometimes doubt may in fact be literally and historically true! but if not, this might explain it a bit.

i think that He sometimes spoke as if He remembered vast history and long aeons of longing (“How i would have gathered you as a hen gathers her chicks” sounds to me as if He had watched Israel all the years she existed and was so sad about the coming destruction of 70AD.

it’s hard to know…maybe there were things He needed to remember as a sign to us, and other things He didn’t…

but as to the power and authority to do signs and wonders, it does make sense that He did it only through the Father’s power as an example to us.