The Evangelical Universalist Forum


As I answered a “christian friend” about my heretical views on hell today, I realized that modern churchianity has a Jonah complex.

Quite possibly.

It may typify modern Christianity in general, but still there are many individuals – I hope – who would be thrilled to find out that all would be saved, only they just can’t see it in scripture for whatever reason.


A Jonah Complex is an interesting way to put it. It’s always just baffled me that people think God can break them of their pride, but not others. They can come to know God and others never will? I know I didn’t see it right away and it took someone very influential in my life to convince me God really would save all. Before, I’d probably have thought someone was too hopeful, but I wonder if I would have ousted them, avoided their questions, and looked down on them. Maybe so.

I hope you’re right, Sonia.
I’m with you, Amy, I don’t want to be too hard on people. It was pretty hurtful and it’s hard to believe people you have known so long can just throw you under the bus like that. I have a lot of faults so, I don’t want to be snotty about it but, I think it shows a huge lack of integrity to act that way toward anyone. I know we all have our days and “make mistakes” but, I’m talking about just being like that. It’s so wrong! I’m going to wipe my nose now and suck it up. I’ve got some praying and loving to do. Thanks for listening!

Yeah, I think many of us have experienced some not very nice stuff in regards to our universalism. And I’m sure there’s more to come.

It’s great for personal growth. “Lord, teach me to love like You love.” … Wait a minute, do I really want to pray*** that*** prayer?!? That means I’m going to end up also praying, “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.”


That’s one of the benefits of believing that God will really reconcile all, it keeps us in check to love like that. Or, it should. Unfortunately, I know people don’t always detect that from me. Some people really have sensed a change. They’ ell me, you used to be so uptight. That was a little bit of a shocker! :open_mouth: And those were the Christians! Other people probably, on the outside of church, probably thought worse. And they would not be far off. I used to think all kinds of crazy things, like that God somehow must love me more because I’m on my way up for good and they are on their way down for good. How could he possibly love them and never reconcile them I reasoned. Even at that time I knew that real love could not leave someone resigned to endless separation from God.

Hmm isn’t it funny how we have the idea that upright means the same thing as up-tight. the kingdom of God is an upside down kingdom and when people start to walk out this non-sensical way (a.k.a. the way of Jesus) you will have people up in arms shouting, “These who have turned the world upside down have come here also!”

I find it funny that the main reason the Jews rejected Pauls message was because of his inclusivness of the gospel. When he told the Jews that God had sent him to the gentiles this was their reaction,

[The Jews] listened to [Paul] until he said that (God had sent him to the gentiles); then they lifted up their voice, and said, “Rid the earth of this fellow, for he isn’t fit to live!”

See the hatred and annimosity toward one who dares to say how loving God is toward his creation? The Ancient Jews are the Calvinists of today, they loved to be the special ones of God, the elected and enlightened ones who while claiming that God chose them still have an air of arrogance about their position.

Be encouraged God shows grace to the humble, but he opposes the proud. Never let pride enter your heart, instead let the love of Christ destroy pride, and let his love control how you see your friends.

The very strange thing to me is my persecution comes from “christians”. My “nonreligious” friends love me and respond to things I say about God very kindly, the exception being occasionally, those who have some religious training and don’t want to ever hear about God again because of their experience. After all these years, it still blows my mind that the ones you might call “the brethren” are the ones that are that way. Our family, being unversed in religious doctrines, as we read the Bible, just believed it. We never saw a disconnect between the OT and NT. It all flowed perfectly together. So, when we went to “church”, we couldn’t understand the way they treated us and each other. To us, Torah was still important as a guide to love. They gouged each other in business deals and pretended God didn’t see or care. They really didn’t know what love was, though they professed it. When we would say, God doesn’t want us to continue to sin but, to keep Torah in Spirit. Then, we were legalistic and “under the law”. Which was not true but, they closed their ears. So, we have already undergone persecution for showing our faith by what we do. Now, they nail us for understanding that God will reconcile all people to Himself. I just don’t really get where they are coming from! I guess they say the same about me.

Upright and uptight. :laughing: Upright should not equal uptight. Kelly, I can relate to what you shared. It’s like they realize that love is important, keeping the spirit of the law, but then if you take it too seriously you are following the law and that’s a bad thing. I also have experienced non-Christians being less judgemental, except for the ones that are so anti-anything religious because they had a bad experience.

LOL! Had to laugh, awakeningaletheia, when you said, “let his love control how you see your friends”. I thought to myself how do I see my friends? Then I pictured myself wide eyed and open mouthed, saying what the? :open_mouth:

Take your pick, Jonah, Peter (Get up Peter, Kill and Eat) or The Pharisees.

All three have one thing in common, They were Narrowminded regarding the reach of God’s Love. God had to pay each group extra visits to try to explain the depth of his Love for all. They had a very hard time with God’s Love and Mercy.

But I find it strangly funny for some reason that Jonah was so upset that God was going to show Mercy to Ninevah.

I think he enjoyed being a doom and gloom prophet seeing God’s judgement, but God went and ruined the fun. And Jonah was upset.

Todays Church also gets upset when we undermine their doom and gloom message.

Interestingly, Jonah was the one who ended in hell, albeit for three days. It reminds me of Jesus saying that people who called their brothers “fool” (ie. a total reject) were themselves in danger of hell.

That is very interesting, Allan! Good parallel verse on the thought.
I have to wonder why anyone who experienced that would want it for others. I have experienced some serious spiritual torment in this life and wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
Blessings, Allan! May His right hand uphold you!