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For Those Who Rail Against Hell by John Macarthur

Evangelical Universalism Arguments against Evangelical Universalism
#41

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The Severity of Hell
Wednesday, May 11, 2011

Charles Spurgeon once advised fellow-preachers, “Shun all views of future punishment that would make it appear less terrible.” Yet another timely word from Spurgeon—efforts to extinguish the flames of hell abound in our day, just as they did in his.

As you listen to popular views about hell, you can test what you hear with a few biblically-discerning questions:

* Does this view of hell diminish the threat of God’s judgment?
* Does this teaching soften the urgency of repentance?
* Is this offering the sinner any hope of salvation beyond this life?

Modern views of hell won’t survive the test of biblical fidelity. They’ll allow the sinner to feel more comfortable and complacent by defanging God, making Him appear less severe.

Challenges to the doctrine of hell start out by questioning what the Bible clearly says, but they don’t end there. Wayne Grudem, recognizing the trend to make hell appear more bearable, noticed a tragic pattern:

The doctrine of eternal conscious punishment…tends to be one of the first doctrines given up by people who are moving away from a commitment to the Bible as absolutely truthful …]. Among liberal theologians who do not accept the absolute truthfulness of the Bible, there is probably no one today who believes in the doctrine of eternal conscious punishment. (Wayne Grudem, Systematic Theology)

Two of the more prominent campaigns against hell are attacks against its eternality and severity. Travis gave us some help in understanding the eternality of hell; now let’s take a look at hell’s severity.

Will hell really be that bad?

Whenever Jesus described hell, He was never flippant or dismissive. He used vivid, terrifying terms to describe the final destination of sinners, shocking and scaring His audiences with frighteningly graphic metaphors. Hell is a place so bad that you should be willing to cut off sensitive, irreplaceable parts of your body to avoid it (Mt. 5:29-30); even martyrdom would be worth avoiding the torment of hell (Matt. 10:28). He always presented hell as a horrific place of intolerable suffering.

His descriptions are consistent with other biblical writers. Daniel referred to hell as a place of shame and everlasting contempt (Dan. 12:2). Paul called it a place of endless destruction and punishment (2 Thess. 1:5-10). Jude called hell a place of eternal fire and darkness (Jude 7). The Apostle John described hell as a place where sinners suffer everlasting torment, with no rest day or night (Rev. 14:9-11).

Taken together, all those descriptions of hell communicate pain, fear, loss, anger, separation, and hopelessness. It’s utter agony, eternal torment.

Agony and Torment

The New Testament describes hell as a place of unimaginable torment. Biblical writers help us picture scenes of unspeakable horror, and most of the time they’re merely quoting what Jesus said about hell:

* weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matt. 8:12)
* spiritual and bodily destruction (Mt. 10:28)
* fiery furnaces (Matt. 13:42, 50)
* outer darkness (Matt. 22:13)
* unquenchable fires (Mark 9:48-49)
* endless torments (Luke 16:23-24)

John Calvin, commenting on those descriptions, wrote, "By such expressions, the Holy Spirit certainly intended to confound all our senses with dread.” Calvin understood the Bible’s appeal to our senses. When you read about hell in Scripture, you can almost hear the agonizing wails, smell the smoke and burning sulfur, see the flames from the lake of fire, and feel the seething anger of the wicked as they gnash their teeth at the Righteous Judge.

Jesus used pictures and metaphors to help us understand the horror of hell. Darkness represents loneliness, insecurity, the sense of being lost and disoriented; fire represents the excruciating pain of burning; and a lake of fire represents the sense of drowning, suffocating, taking the burning sulfur internally. These vivid pictures of hell’s environment should provoke a reasonable sense of fear in a normal, thinking person. No one can come away with the idea that hell is a tolerable place to spend eternity.

Abandonment

While it’s true that hell is a place of untold physical pain and suffering (fire, scorching, being cut to pieces), I think we often overlook the mental agony of being completely forsaken—abandoned for all eternity. After all, the most chilling cry from our Lord as He suffered God’s wrath on the cross stemmed not from physical pain, but from being forsaken by the Father. Jesus cried out, “My God, My God, Why have You forsaken Me?” (Matt. 27:46).

John MacArthur explained the significance of God forsaking the Son in relation to hell: “This is a reminder to all sinners that while hell is the full fury of God’s personal punishment presence, He will never be there to comfort. He will never be there to show sympathy. He will never bring relief. …] it is both the punishment of God and the absence of comfort. …] That’s hell—punishment without relief (“The King Crucified: Consummation at Calvary”). As the Puritan Thomas Vincent put it, “Not only will the unbeliever be in hell, but hell will be in him too.”

Imprisonment

The New Testament frequently presents hell as a prison—a place of eternal confinement (Mt. 22:13; Jude 13; 2 Pet. 2:9). It’s impossible to understand first-century prison conditions by looking at American prisons today where accommodations include cable television, three square meals, educational opportunities, outdoor exercise, and toilet/shower facilities. In many of the world’s jails throughout history, jailors didn’t just treat prisoners like criminals, but rather as sub-humans, as animals.

But even the worst of earthly prison conditions serve as weak analogies to the eternal dungeon of God’s hell. God will offer nothing to comfort or relieve his agony—ever. In hell, sinners will forever be hopeless, helpless, and powerless. God casts them into hell for one reason—punishment (2 Thess. 1:9).

Look at the Cross

If you want an inside glimpse of the agonies of hell, look at the Savior in Gethsemane as He anticipated the cross. See the bloody drops of sweat falling from his body as He faced the reality of absorbing His Father’s eternal wrath. Hear His agonizing screams from the cross as His Father—for the first and last time—abandoned His sin-bearing Son. Feel His loneliness as He faced those agonies alone.

Hell is a place where God’s full wrath and fury will be poured out eternally on sinners. Possessing in Himself the essence and omniscience of deity, Christ knew what He spoke of. And as our sin-bearing substitute, He anticipated the torments of hell and finally experienced the full outpouring of divine wrath for all those who believe.

Scripture is abundantly clear about the doctrine of hell. Nothing good can come from advocating a view of hell that makes it out to be anything less than a hopeless, agonizing, eternal separation from the good and gracious presence of God. If you reject, diminish, or neglect the doctrine of hell, you undermine the gravity of our sin in contrast to the holiness of God. But armed with accurate teaching on hell, you help the sinner understand why he must flee from the wrath of God to the mercy of Jesus Christ.

Tommy Clayton
Content Developer and Broadcast Editor

#42

Oxy and Dirtboy

What is your purpose with this ECT propaganda that most, if not all of us at one point followed but now have seen a Greater Light. Is it to try and make of us good little Macathurite like yourself or what?

As I have said to you on another thread, have you prayerfully read all the resources availible to you through this forum and other websites. If you have and are still of the opinion that we are wrong, then all I can say is sorry that you feel this way and I will be praying for you. Praying that our Heavenly Father would remove the veil of tradition from your eyes.

Grace and peace

#43

Hey URPilgrim,
Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you! I don’t believe in ECT. I am a “new convert” to UR theology, but am still struggling through some issues with various ECT proofs. I think that the proofs in favor of UR outweigh the proofs against, at this point. The reason why I posted this article that oxy was quoting was that** the author is actually going back to a hell that many modern, conservative, ECT evangelicals have rejected.** He wants to stress that hell’s occupants are going to literally be on fire day and night, burning in constant anguish. He goes on and on to show how terrifyingly torturous it is. I should have commented on my reasons for posting it, but he seems to revel in its hideousness. I just don’t get why some folks seem to revel in hells horrors.

I have had many arguments with oxy, but gave up because, to me, he doesn’t really listen to any arguments in favor of UR. I’ve never seen him actually take a pro UR argument from scripture and take it on, point by point, answering the scriptures. Anyhow, sorry to upset you, URPilgrim. I’m actually on your side :smiley:

#44

Hey Dirtboy

Likewise, I apologize Dirtboy, I did not mean to put you in Oxy’s camp. :blush: I too am new to The wonderful truths of EU and learning much here on this forum. After too many years having preached the horrible things that are in that article myself. I had a hard time reading the whole thing. Please forgive me :cry:

Having come out of the circles that taught ECT, unfortunately it is still far too prevalent in the more fundamental groups. The type that still believe that the KJV is still the best english translation :open_mouth: I hope I have not step on your toes by making that statement.

I must not let Oxy get under my skin :laughing:

God bless

#45

I had a hard time reading the whole thing.

It was awful wasn’t it? I put it there to kind of remind us how crazy that way of thinking is. Can you imagine God actually stoking the fires to make sure that people stay lit? :open_mouth: It’s crazy. oxy is having someone represent ECT with the craziest, most literal, disturbing kind of hell and I think it will backfire against him.

Anyhow, no problem at all my brother. You have not stepped on my toes at all - I’m completely on your side! The KJV has “hell” in it fifty something times and it’s simply wrong. Have you read the article about taking hell out of the bible? It shows how translators have been taking the word out as they are getting more accurate.

Peace,

Chris

#46

If Christ took hell upon himself in our place, and the full outpouring of divine wrath is everlasting and absolute separation from God the Father, then Christ must still be writhing in the flames. If hell is a one-way ticket, no exceptions, then Christ himself cannot escape. It seems the traditional view of hell as ECT is inconsistent with belief in the resurrection of Christ, against whom the gates of hell could not prevail.

It’s interesting that the rich man is separated from Lazarus by a gulf that cannot be crossed. But if God the Son enters hell while God the Father is in Heaven, then heaven and hell become one. Both become the dwelling place of God. The darkness is filled with divine light. The unity of God trumps any rival disunity. As Paul says, all things in heaven, earth and under the earth have been united by Christ’s death.

#47

If it is not possible for men such as Abraham and Lazarus and the rich man to cross the gulf, then surely what is impossible with Men to mediate and cross; is possible with God who is also our mediator.

#48

Hi Allan,

I wondered about this and came to perhaps 2 conclusions:

  1. Jesus suffered hell on the cross. In Matthews Gospel, account of the Crucifixion has in chapter 27, verse 46 “About the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?”
    It seems to me that Jesus suffered actual separation from God the Father in that time.
  2. Jesus facing God’s wrath would be the only one who would be able to defeat death. One of the facets of the Gospel message is that Jesus has taken the punishment for our sin. In our acceptance of Him, he stands in our place and we are justified. If we reject Jesus, we stand alone having to pay the price for our sins and as we are not divine, there is no way we get out the other side. I read something once that I thought was good from a youtube poster along the lines of the fact that God has already dealt with sin through Jesus, so the problem is no longer with sin but is how we respond to His Son.
#49

Hi Sazag,

I can’t swallow the idea that God the Father rejected God the Son. It’s like saying He drew a square circle. Rather than hating his Son, surely the Father never loved him more than in that terrible moment. If the Father had indeed forsaken the Son, to whom was Jesus speaking? And a breath later, Jesus commits his spirit into his Father’s care, and God both heard and answered his prayer. If Christ had been utterly forsaken, if he was in a place of absolute separation from his Father, he would still be there. That’s what absolute separation means.

Surely a better explanation would be this: Jesus wished to draw his tormentors minds to Psalm 22. They would have known it by heart. They thought it referred to them, to Israel, to their suffering, but Jesus was saying No, it refers to me:

I am a worm and not a man, scorned by everyone…
All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
“He trusts in the LORD,” they say, “let the LORD rescue him…”

Many bulls surround me… Roaring lions that tear their prey open…
I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax… My tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth…
you lay me in the dust of death.

Dogs surround me… they pierce my hands and my feet…
All my bones are on display… people stare and gloat…
They cast lots for my garment.

But you, LORD, do not be far from me…Deliver me from the sword,

I will declare your name to my people…For he has not despised or scorned the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help.

All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations will bow down before him,

All the rich of the earth will feast and worship; all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—

Posterity will serve him; They will proclaim his righteousness…

He has done it!

I think Christ’s anguish is the revelation in space and time of the eternal anguish of God in the face of human evil. We have crucified God from the beginning. Adam ate the apple and hid in the bushes. That surely broke God’s heart. “Adam. My dearest, beautiful Adam. Where are you?” God has borne our sin, has suffered in our place, has sacrificed himself for us, has swallowed his own wrath from the very first. We humans don’t realize how deeply we hurt him and how much he has taken upon himself. Christ changes all that. Christ doesn’t change God’s mind toward us: he reveals it. In him we glimpse the face of God. Christ doesn’t stand between us and an angry God. Christ is God, standing up for us. He is, has always been, for us. To accept Christ is to recognize the agony our sin causes Him and to turn from it with loathing. I’m reminded of the man who gave Jesus some vinegar to drink. Was there perhaps a hint of compassion in that act? May we also be ones who bring a moment of comfort to God’s heart.

#50

Hi Allan,
Thankyou for drawing my attention to the comparison of Psalm 22 and it being Jesus’ way of showing those present as His crucifixion that He was the Messiah prophecyed about in the Old Testament. I just read an article about it over at TruthOrTradition.com and I completely missed it. Psalm 22 seems to be very positive about all people worshipping God. Its a completely new perspective for me. Thanks Allan. :smiley:

#51

And yet another EU supporting verse. :laughing:

#52

I find that happens quite a lot. UR really is a paradigm shift.

It certainly seems that way. :slight_smile: Even the rich of the earth (Christ’s mortal enemies) will join the party.

#53

and the series continues:- gty.org/Blog/B110518

Is God a Monster?

It’s become popular today for professing evangelicals to join the ranks of Pinnock, atheists, and agnostics in protesting the doctrine of hell…*

*It’s become popular today for professing evangelicals to join the ranks of Pinnock, atheists, and agnostics in protesting the doctrine of hell. They are preaching sermons, writing articles, and publishing books, and some are wandering into the comment threads of Christian blogs. Here’s a small sampling from Grace To You’s blog in our recent series on hell:

“What kind of God torments people for all eternity?”
“…Satan loves the false doctrine of eternal torment”
“[eternal torment is] cruel and unusual punishment”
“[eternal torment] makes God out to be a cruel tyrant,” “absolutely cruel and malevolent”
“How can you in your right minds even consider this to be justice?”*

gty.org/Blog/B110518

**
I may be a Calvinist but I take comfort that I am on the right path in knowing that there is very, very, very, very little I would agree with an atheist about God if at all. Universalism would side with atheism (darkness) etc… about A major doctrine that pertains to the character and nature of God, which is why Christians and universalists are not brothers and sisters in Christ. That is siding with darkness and the light NEVER sides with the dark**

(2 Corinthians 6:14)
Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?

#54

What an amazing truth this is!

Thank you AllanS for writing this - it is an incredibly succinct way to say what usually takes me hundreds of words to express.

-AaronK

#55

*Matthew 7:13 Enter through the narrow gate; for broad is the gate and spacious the way leading into ruin, and many are the ones entering through her.

Luke 19:10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the ruined.*

Even those who enter into ruin, and are ruined; The Son of Man shall seek until he finds, and save them. Every knee shall bow, and every tongue avow Him.

–Translation from the Greek by me; verse chain presented by an acquaintance of mine.

#56

It is amazing.

Here’s an alternative view.

A certain man had a loving wife and a rebellious daughter. This is how he ran his house: Whenever his daughter misbehaved, he would say, “I am very angry indeed at your sin. Very, very angry. So angry I cannot even look at you! But I am a merciful man. Yes, I will forgive you your sins, but first, justice must be satisfied. Only blood can turn away my wrath. Therefore, regretfully, I must beat up your mother.”

:open_mouth:

#57

I have always been the biggest Macarthur fan. I went to the Masters college and spent many hours conversing with those at the Masters Seminary in order to determine if that was something I felt God leading me to.

I Felt there was something not quite right there. The Calvinist leaning and working out of Salvation along with the view of Hell Never added up to me. Macarthur has always been context sensitive in his attempt to understand and teach the scriptures. It is therefore sad for me to see his approach here regarding the word “aionios”. Either he is allowing his Theology to affect his honest research of the word as used in the above verse or he is being dishonest to himself and readers as he avoids the obvious way the word is used throughout scripture. It is really hard to watch this unfold. It doesn’t negate the work that God has done through him however, as one of the most gifted speakers and teachers of our time. Just a little shocking that he won’t admit what can be seen easily by a little basic research.

#58

Steve,
My husband and I were members at MacArthur’s church – he grew up there, and I was there from about 1990 to 1996. We had quite a few friends who went to Master’s and the seminary. Nice to meet another from the same club!

Sonia

#59

The infamous words of Jonathan Edwards in Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God:

The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment. It is to be ascribed to nothing else, that you did not go to hell the last night; that you was suffered to awake again in this world, after you closed your eyes to sleep. And there is no other reason to be given, why you have not dropped into hell since you arose in the morning, but that God’s hand has held you up. There is no other reason to be given why you have not gone to hell, since you have sat here in the house of God, provoking his pure eyes by your sinful wicked manner of attending his solemn worship. Yea, there is nothing else that is to be given as a reason why you do not this very moment drop down into hell. O sinner! Consider the fearful danger you are in: it is a great furnace of wrath, a wide and bottomless pit, full of the fire of wrath, that you are held over in the hand of that God, whose wrath is provoked and incensed as much against you, as against many of the damned in hell. You hang by a slender thread, with the flames of divine wrath flashing about it, and ready every moment to singe it, and burn it asunder; and you have no interest in any Mediator, and nothing to lay hold of to save yourself, nothing to keep off the flames of wrath, nothing of your own, nothing that you ever have done, nothing that you can do, to induce God to spare you one moment.

And George MacDonald’s reaction to Jonathan Edward’s portrayal of God:

From all copies of Jonathan Edwards‘ portrait of God, however faded by time, however softened by the use of less glaring pigments, I turn with loathing.

#60

Definitely nice to E-meet someone that has also seen the inside of a Church and School where the most dogmatic proponents of ECT exist. The way of thinking that I encountered there never reflected the Love of God that I have seen elsewhere, and it always bothered me and was the primary reason why I decided against going to Seminary there or anywhere else.

But it wasn’t until now, around 15 years later that I can look back and understand Why I was so unsettled by what I saw.

I’ve read a number of your Posts and some of your testimony about your husband and am so glad you are on this board. Your posts have been real helpful for me already as you are farther down the path of studying all this then I am, so thanks for posting and giving your insight on this board!

I look forward to the the discussions and learnings that I am finding on this board daily. So many people bring so much insight and depth of understanding, I am curious to see if this will become a movement of GOD on a large scale. Or it will only be a few that come to an understanding of the fullness of his Love during this time in history. Either way I am overwhelmed and humbled by it all.

I have some family that I want to share this with, and ask that you folks can pray that God can show me the right approach to talk to them or if that is what he even wants at this time.