The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Gal 5:23 No law "against" the fruit of the Spirit?

I have a bible study on Gal 5 this week.
v23 seems to say there is no law “against” the fruit of the Spirit.
It would seem to me more in line with the context if Paul had said that there is no law that can “produce” or “achieve” the fruit of the Spirit. They come from the Spirit, not by the law.

I know very little NT Greek, but I looked up the Greek word for “against” and it is “kata”, which can mean “against” but it can also apparently mean “according to”, or “down from” which seem quite different and could fit more in line with the meaning I thought would suit the context.
I noted that “the message” translation has something along this line of thinking:
“Legalism is helpless in bringing this (the fruit of the spirit) about, it only gets in the way”.

My problem- all of the more “reputable” translations I have looked up have “against” and a friend who knows a bit of Greek thinks that “kata” can only be translated as “against” in this verse because of something to do with the grammar of the adjacent words.

I know there are some on this forum who know some Greek and wondered if you may be able to help please?
Is the meaning of kata definitely “against” in this verse as dictated by the grammar, or is kata a word that could mean different things and one has to look at the context to determine which is most likely?

Thanks very much in advance.

I don’t know, but I’d be interested to hear what our more “Greeky” members have to say on the subject. [tag]JasonPratt[/tag] and [tag]Paidion[/tag] would be good to ask for starters.

When {kata} is used by itself, it just means “down”.

When {kata} is used with a genitive object of a preposition, which normally by itself would mean “of the noun”, the preposition indicates down-something-the-noun. Down-what differs according to the context. Literally it would be ‘down-from-the-noun’, but there are a number of common metaphorical applications, too: it can indicate an oath, as though someone is laying their hand down on something to swear truth; or it can indicate hostile opposition, like when the gates of hades will not stand down-upon or down-strong against the Church.

When {kata} is the preposition of an accusative prepositional phrase, like in the oldest known Gospel titles (which simply read things like {kata} Luke for example), it shifts to a different metaphorical application of ‘down from’: the text was passed or written down from Luke, in other words the text is written by Luke. By extrapolation the term can also mean “in accord with” or “in agreement with”, which occasionally has some interesting applications in soteriology! In English we commonly combine the concepts to translate the Gospel titles (for example) “According to Luke” or “According to Mark”: Mark and Luke are passing their versions of Jesus’ story down to us (metaphorically speaking), and the text agrees with what they intended to say while doing so. (In current English urban slang, the object of the verb is “down with” the subject! :laughing: Yo, are you down with Jesus and His gospel, blood?)

(It’s also a super-common prefix, developed from abbreviating an originally separate preposition {kata} together with its object into a compound word, which sometimes leads to some curious further metaphorical meanings.)

In this case, the textual transmission consistently reads the prepositional phrase {kata tôn toioutôn}. (There are some transmission variations in the first part of verse 23, in how the list of fruits of the Spirit end, but not in what we call the second half of the verse.) That’s {kata} with a genitive plural direct article plus a genitive plural noun serving as an adjective.

That adjective is a little weird and hard to translate into English. It’s a compound word formed by a dative plural direct article {toi} and {houtos}, which is itself a plural formed from the nominative direct article {ho} and {autos}

So the whole phrase literally reads {kata} of-things of-pertaining-to-these-these-things! Except the "of"s don’t actually count anymore because of the {kata}!

And now… you are insane. :slight_smile: http://www.wargamer.com/forums/smiley/dizzy2.gif Sorry.

How does this resolve back out into a sensible meaning?

Ignoring the genitive form for the moment, {tôn toioutôn} is a Greek way of emphatically stacking up self-referential “things” for a meaning like “things such as these things” or more shortly “such things”, but with a lot stronger emphasis: think of it as “most certainly such things”.

{kata tôn} is the actual prepositional phrase (with {toioutôn} describing {tôn}), and since “things” (and its adjective) are in genitive form, that means {kata} either means literally down from, or metaphorically means swearing an oath emphatically, or metaphorically means strongly against (like pressing or looming down over or down upon).

{ouk estin nomos} simply means “a law is not”, with the negative “is not” being fronted for emphasis, and the “not” being fronted to show it goes with the verb (instead of “is not a law”). So it’s backward compared to our grammar but there are reasons.

After that, it’s just a matter of testing which optional meanings make the most sense.

1.) “Physically down from emphatically such things, most certainly is not a law (or the Law).”

2.) “By emphatically such things (I swear), most certainly is not a/the law.”

3.) “Against emphatically such things, most certainly is not a/the law.”

Option 3 makes the most sense to most translators, myself included. :slight_smile: Paul isn’t swearing by those fruits of the spirit that law (or the Torah) doesn’t exist; and he isn’t trying to say that those things certainly didn’t physically send down a law (or the Torah).

He’s trying to say that there is certainly no law (not even the Torah) against such things the Holy Spirit cultivates, as self-control, patience, faithfulness, peace, etc. Whereas people who keep doing the things in the previous list (vv.19-21) aren’t going to inherit God’s kingdom. The Law is against such evil things, which do not come from the Holy Spirit, but the Spirit leads people to habitually do other things which the Law most certainly is not against.

(Paul probably isn’t saying here that the Law doesn’t cultivate good fruits, the Spirit does; but I expect he’d agree with that, especially in Galatians. :slight_smile: )

Thanks very much Jason for this very thorough and helpful explanation (even if it does show my own thoughts to be on the wrong track :laughing:).

Well… I’ve studied several years of Greek, but Jason’s explanation is too complex and detailed for my understanding. Isn’t that surprising! :wink:

So I will attempt to make some remarks which simple people like myself can understand. :laughing:

First I’d like to point out that “κατα” is used in this verse with the genitive case of τοι ουτων (“such as this” or “such things”), and so we need not concern ourselves with what “κατα” with the accusative case means when considering THIS verse.

A few things to observe: In MOST cases, “κατα” with the genitive means “against”. In SOME cases, it means “down from”. Since the latter meaning doesn’t seem to make sense in the context of this verse, all translations to my knowledge render the word as “against”.

This also DOES make sense in the context (ESV translation):

13 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
15 But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

God’s law forbids most or all of the practices mentioned in verses 19-21. But if we are led by the Spirit we are not under law (verse 18). For we will bring forth what law requires “naturally”, that is, from our regenerated natures which are in harmony with God’s spirit. Also the spirit of God in us is against these wrongful practices of verses 19-21 and will help keep us from doing some of the wrong things we may yet be inclined to do (verse 17).

But the fruit which the indwelling spirit of God produces in us (verses 22,23) has nothing to do with God’s law (or human law either for that matter).
While there is law against the practices mentioned in verses 19-21, there is NO LAW against the fruit of the spirit—the spirit-inspired practices and character traits of verses 22 and 23.

What is the ‘sensuality’ that is mentioned in those verses? I’ve often wondered about what that meant in Paul’s time.
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Dave, I don’t think “sensuality” is a good translation of “ασελγια”. To be human is to be sensuous.

The first letter “α” in the word means “not”. But I don’t think anyone knows for certain what it means to be “not selgia”. But some think, (and this seems to be the best guess), that it means not self-controlled sexually. Some translate it as “licentiousness”, the idea that we have license to carry out at any time we wish whatever sexual thought enters our head.

That makes a lot of sense and fits the context.
Thanks Paidion!

Thanks Paidion.
It is great the way you and Jason are so willing to share your Greek knowledge and insight into the meaning of scripture. Very helpful. :smiley:

The grace of the Lord, and the love of the God, and the sharing of the sanctified spirit [be] with every [one] of you

The grace of the Lord, and the love of the God, and the sharing of the sanctified spirit [be] with every [one] of you

I’ve always thought of this passage as meaning “The fruits of the spirit are…, and there is no law against these.” This implies “if anyone tells you that there is a law against being kind to people they are badly wrong” which I think is the thrust of the argument.

I agree Wormwood that this is what it sounds like, but do you really think that some were actually saying “being kind to people is against the law”, and Paul was trying to correct this wrong teaching? This would seem to me to be a strange thing for anyone to teach, don’t you think?

It’s probably something more along the lines of… **Luke 11:42 ** “But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

Sticklers for law invariably miss the woods for the trees.

I forgot to mention why I mentioned that: some of the translations I read seemed to be going for an accusative case translation, and I was trying to account for the difference. (Why they would do that I don’t know.)

But Craig in the original post asked whether “according to” would be a proper translation, so I thought I should explain why that’s true in some cases (accusative form) but couldn’t be here (genitive not accusative form).

True, I just wanted to account for where the majority meaning came from.

That goes back to what Paidion noted in the context: there were people, nominally Christians, who thought they could use their Christian freedom to do various things against God’s law. Those people who do such things are rebelling against God, such desires being against the Spirit; and so long as they keep doing them they won’t inherit the kingdom. Therefore as Paul warns in verse 13 (in the ESV quoted by Paidion), “Do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.”

(The Stepmom-Sleeping Guy from 1 Corinthians seems like one of those people who was trying to teach that Christians could do whatever they wanted now, because Christians aren’t under any law even God’s law! – the result being that he does things which morally revolt even the Gentiles, which among other problems hurts evangelism.)

Robin,

Neither Paidion or I (for overlapping reasons) recommend “according to” as the translation of {kata}, since its form there is genitive not accusative.

As for the general differences between the BP Byzantine 2005 text and other critical editions, my educated guess (not having access to the critical Byzantine edition) is that it comes from other critical editions cutting off their textual source accounting around the 14th century, and relying more on earlier texts anyway. Nestle-Aland/UBS, for example, knows that Byzantine family texts exist, and they include early versions of that in their accounting, and sometimes mention the Byzantine family branch or notable sub-branches when talking about text differences, but they don’t weigh super-late texts into the criticism because they’re trying to reconstruct the autographic (original composition) forms of the text. After a point it’s just impossible that a late testified variation would count for that.

That doesn’t mean a critical Byzantine edition would be worthless – it would testify to the special traditions of Eastern Orthodox interpretation, emphasis and doctrines, which because of EOx hierarchy would be authoritative in the EOx communion of inspired interpretation. That wouldn’t be of any weight to anyone outside the EOx branch of Christendom, however, even though a non-EOx might respect the attempts.

Anyway, like I said I don’t have the BP2005 edition at hand, so that’s only my educated guess about the differences (generally speaking). But I run across this issue on occasion when comparing Textus Receptus critical editions with others based on an earlier and wider text set: sometimes words show up in the TR (or are different or omitted) which the apparatus for N-A/USB just don’t mention. In some cases it might easily be a totally trivial oversight, but in others I legitimately suspect the TR is using a late variant witness, because that was a factor in its composition.

In the particular case of {moicheia} for verse 19, though, I don’t know why the UBS edition doesn’t at least mention it in the apparatus. The Nestle-Aland (which is basically the same Greek text with different apparatus notes) does mention it as a respectfully strong variation, but doesn’t clearly explain why they didn’t think the word was original to the text. I’ll try to list the witnesses.

For including {moicheia}:

Cyprian (sometime before his death AD 295, minor spelling difference)
Added to Aleph (Unical Greek, 4th century) by 2nd corrector (N-A doesn’t say when)
Ambrosiaster (non-Ambrose texts writing in the name of Ambrose or otherwise attributed to him, between AD 366-384)
Latin translation of Irenaeus (around AD 395, minor spelling difference, lacking original 2nd century Ir)
b (5th century Latin, trivial spelling difference)
D (6th century Pauline texts appended to a 5th century collection of Gospels and Acts)
syr-h (Syriac compiled by Thomas of Harkel from Greek sources in AD 616, no editorial note by ThomHark about this term)
F (9th century Unical, trivial spelling difference)
G (9th century Unical, trivial spelling difference)
Psi (late 9th or early 10th century Unical)
0122 (9th century Unical)
0278 (9th century Unical, switches word order, trivial spelling difference)
1739 (10th century miniscule Greek, added in the margin without comment by adder why he added it)
All Byzantine Koine families (with a very few exceptions)

Against including:

Clement of Alexandria (sometime before death AD 215)
Aleph originally (4th century Greek Unical)
B (4th century Unical)
co (all 4th century Coptic)
all vulgate Latin (late 4th early 5th centuries)
A (5th century Unical)
C (5th century Unical)
syr-p (5th century Syriac Peshitta)
P (9th century Pauline epistles collected with 6th century Gospel texts, Unical)
33 (9th century Greek miniscule)
2464 (9th century miniscule)
bo (all 9th century Bohairic Coptic)
ar (9th century Latin Pauline collection)
1141 (10th century miniscule)
1739 (original 10th century miniscule)
81 (very early 11th century miniscule)
1241 (12th century miniscule, switches word order of remaining words)
1881 (14th century miniscule)
a few Byzantine Koine texts

While technically the term is found in the majority of Greek texts (since the majority of Greek texts are late Byzantine koine), early Greek texts definitely favor its absence. Late Unicals favor its inclusion. The (relatively) early Greek miniscule witness favors strongly against, as does late non-Byzantine family miniscule.

Early Fathers referencing the verse tend to include it, but the earliest Patristic reference doesn’t, and we apparently lack the Irenaeus Greek original for the Latin translation in 395 so we can’t cross-check whether the term was there. On the other hand, that does weigh toward the Latin translator having included what he found (since we have no evidence otherwise).

There is a much wider early non-Greek language spread against inclusion, than in favor, including only one early Latin (5th c) exception in favor against unanimous vulgate Latin (from Jerome’s work late 4th c).

My guess is the N-A editors read the evidence like this: for pastoral concerns, the term was habitually added to citations of the verse, and as time went on the term started entering actual texts of Paul, reaching an inclusion on par with its absence around the 9th century, while the later Coptic continued witnessing its absence in early Coptic (as did later Vulgate Latin from Jerome’s omission). Minor spelling differences and word switches also weigh (slightly) in favor of the term not originally appearing. The Byzantine authoritative editors started including it due to strong late Unical testimony (and maybe for interpretative pastoral reasons), but its absence survived for a while in Greek miniscules outside official Byzantine Empire text production.

(Not that this has anything to do with Craig’s question. I’m just being super-geeky since Robin asked. :ugeek: But the evidence doesn’t support some kind of conspiracy to omit adultery, to implicitly suggest that was permissible.)

The grace of the Lord, and the love of the God, and the sharing of the sanctified spirit [be] with every [one] of you

The grace of the Lord, and the love of the God, and the sharing of the sanctified spirit [be] with every [one] of you

Yes Davo, I can understand this. They were trying to obey the letter of the law, but actually indulging the flesh, rather than producing the fruit of the Spirit which is the true fulfilment of the law.

Yes Jason, I can understand people being like that. But that seems different to people actually saying that the fruit of the Spirit is against God’s law (as I think Wormwood was suggesting - but I may be wrong).

I can see it as quite possible that Paul is comparing the acts of the flesh which ARE against the law with the fruit of the Spirit which are NOT against the law.
But I still feel that it is a little strange for Paul to say negatively that the fruit of the Spirit is not against the law, when he could have put it more positively that the fruit of the Spirit sums up or fulfils the law like he says in v14 about love (which is a fruit of the Spirit).

I had another thought, but again I could be totally wrong. I realise that dabbling in a little Greek when I have no idea what I am doing can be a little dangerous, but that is why it is good to have others to bounce my ideas off. Thank you.

In Greek Grammar by Daniel Wallace p743, he says
kata with Genitive:
a. Spatial: down from, throughout
b. Opposition: against
c. Source: from

So does this mean that “from” in the sense of “source” is a possible meaning of kata in the genitive?
Gal 3:1-5 says that God did not give his Spirit because the Galatians observed the law but because they believed the gospel. The Spirit did not come “from” or “down from” the law. The source of the Spirit was not the law, so don’t go back to the law as the source of life.
Could Paul be saying a similar thing in Gal 5:22,23 that the fruit of the Spirit does not come “from” or “down from” the law. The law is not the source of the fruit of the Spirit.
And could this be similar to saying you are to be led by the Spirit, not under law. Gal 5:18?