The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Gehenna is Hades

Theology Biblical Theology
#34

Let’s examine all New Testament verses which contain the word Hades. The following are from the NKJV (bolding mine):

Mt 11:23 “And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades ; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Mt 16:18 “And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
*Lu 10:15 “And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades *
Lu 16:23 “And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Ac 2:27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades , Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
Ac 2:31 “he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
Re 1:18 “I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
Re 6:8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.
Re 20:13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
Re 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Hades and Gehenna cannot be the same thing, since Gehenna is the Lake of Fire, and Re 20:14 indicates that the writer saw in his vision Hades being cast into the Lake of Fire.

I suggest that “Hades” is simply “the grave.” None of the verses containing the word indicate anyone being conscious in Hades except Luke 16:23, in which Jesus gives a parable based on a common belief of the Jews in His day—that those who die go to a physical place which they called “Hades.” In all other verses it is clearly “the grave.” 'Even Acts 2:27 in which translators render ψυχη as “soul” whereas the word actually means “self.” The sentence “You will not leave my soul in the grave” is a promise of my resurrection.

Jesus also gave a parable of the rich man who talked to his “soul” (actually he talked to himself or “his self”).

Now examine the passages that contain the word “Gehenna” often translated as “Hell.”
Mt 5:22 “But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mt 5:29 “If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell .
Mt 5:30 “And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell .
Mt 10:28 “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell .
Mt 18:9 “And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.
Mt 23:15 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
Mt 23:33 “Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?
*Mr 9:43 “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched — *
*Mr 9:45 “And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched — *
*Mr 9:47 “And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire — *
Lu 12:5 “But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!
Jas 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell.

So we can see that Gehenna or “hell” is a fiery place to which some people go after their death.

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#35

Christ’s view of Gehenna was very to the point. You can spin it any way you want but the fact is that Christ was speaking to Jews at that time and place and they understood what Gehenna meant. You can believe in shadows and observations all day if you want, but Christ was indeed talking to a select group of people at a specific time, and he wanted them to understand what he was saying. And the ones who listened were ‘SAVED’ and the rest were in a period of last day destruction.

#36

I know you cannot accept that Gehenna is a place of correction since you think “Everybody gonna be all right” because of Jesus sacrifice. Well, it’s true that “Everybody gonna be all right” but those who will not subject themselves to the authority of Christ are not going to be all right until they have been corrected in Gehenna.

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#37

No, you are wrong, I think that anyone trying to make Gehenna something it is not is being facetious. You included. You want people to ‘pay’ for their misdeeds. I think God has forgiven everyone, and you really don’t like that. I understand but to be honest, my position is much more in tune with Christs, and ultimately God’s words. So there it is.

#38

Yes, Christ did use Gehenna fire metaphorically to create a mental image of the coming destruction at 70 AD. He took a location and it’s imagery and applied it symbolically to an event that was to take place literally. There are many instances through out the bible were a specific event is described by language which creates a mental image, and that same language is applied again else wear in the scriptures to describe an actual event with in a slightly different context [ie] Jeremiah 31:15-17 and Matt 2:18.The slaughter of those in Jeremiahs day, was put forth using the imagery of Rachel lamenting over her children.This was used again in the gospel of Mathew.These Hebrew texts were lifted out and applied to an entirely different event, yet keeping the common theme alive, that being the slaughtering of Israel’s children. Although not specifically mentioned, I believe that the references to Gehenna fire that Christ used metaphorically, are also lifted out and applied with in a slightly different context with in the book of revelation. [ie] the lake of fire, the common theme being destruction by fire, either literal or symbolically,[outside] the city’s walls.

#39

According to the entry on “Gehenna” in the Jewish Encyclopedia (1906), “while opinions may vary,”:

  • “Gehenna” is figuratively equivalent to “hell.”

  • The idea that Gehenna is situated in the valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem “means simply that it [Gehenna] has a gate there"—one of several gates. And really, that "the whole world is like a lid for Gehenna.”

  • “It is assumed in general that sinners go to hell immediately after their death….The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B. M. 83b).”

  • “The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).”

  • “It is assumed that there is an angel-prince in charge of Gehenna….God says to the angel-prince: ‘I punish the slanderers from above, and I also punish them from below with glowing coals’ ('Ar. 15b).”

  • “All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b). The felicity of the pious in paradise excites the wrath of the sinners who behold it when they come from hell (Lev. R. xxxii.).”

While there is mention in the Jewish Encyclopedia entry on Gehenna/hell of the body and soul being reunited for a Day of Judgment, there is no mention about a subsequent remedial “lake of fire,” into which hell (Gehenna) will be cast; nevertheless, we read of hell being cast into the lake of fire in the later Christian Scriptures, in the book of Revelation:

Revelation 20:14 (KJV)
“And death and hell [Hades] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”

Regarding the equivalency of Gehenna/hell/Hades, to quote from my original post,

Gehenna: a thousand word description
#40

Gehenna is NOT Hades and is Hades NOT Gehenna… period!

#41

No, you are wrong in what you presume to be my position. When have I ever suggested that I want people to pay for their misdeeds?

Rather my belief is that by means of Gehenna, God will correct people’s character.

#42

Right!

#43

All right, lets reverse engineer this. So you say by means of Gehenna, God will correct peoples character. You said “I know you cannot accept that Gehenna is a place of correction since you think “Everybody gonna be all right” because of Jesus sacrifice.”

The inference is plain, and you make it multiple times.

#44

NO… hell is a translation of ‘Gehenna’ and the original meaning of Gehenna and our now accepted understanding of ‘HELL’ are two completely different things.

#45

Hermano, waiting for your answer.

#46

“Your call is important to us. Please hold, and an operator will be with you shortly.” :musical_note:

No, actually, for now, I just can’t think of anything to add to my o.p. and follow-up comments.

#47

It may well be that you can’t really argue your position, because that position is predicated on a translation that you have been told is the truth, or have read and believed, as opposed to examining the actual text. Which I unfortunately pointed out.
Good luck Bro.

#48

“Hades” is the grave, and “Gehenna” is hell.

#49

And ‘Hell’ is a product of man to ‘manipulate’ readers who would read and deduce that Gehenna was a valley outside of Jerusalem into thinking that it was some place where evil folks go. Where God would send unbelievers in some ‘specific belief’ to torment forever. Ah but alas, you don’t think the term torment forever fits, and so you include the idea that God will only torment until you turn to His ways.

Bad mojo Don.

#50

Gehenna is such a valley, but it is used figuratively to refer to the process of God’s correction.
Otherwise, why would Jesus have given the following warnings?

Mt 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.
Mt 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
Mt 18:8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.
Mt 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.
Mt 19:10 The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”
Mr 9:43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.
Mr 9:45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell.
Mr 9:47 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell,

Why would it be so terrible to have your dead body thrown into the fires of the valley of Gehenna outside Jerusalem? Why would it be so important to avoid that? Does it matter what happens to your body after death? And certainly no living persons were ever cast into that burning valley.

#51

Because I live here and now in the USA and all the text’s you quote are dealing with that first century people. Don you gotta be smarter than that.

#52

In other words, you don’t have any answer to my reasoning.

#53

No, you refused to acknowledge the actual text of scripture. Gehenna is not Hell as modern folks imagine. You Don can say it is but at the end of the day, folks need to know what the real text is saying. There is no such thing as a Hell that is prescribed by modern evangelicals. It does not exist.