The Evangelical Universalist Forum

God Is Not The Author Of Evil

Theology Biblical Theology
#1

When the orthodox Reformer says that God ordains something He means: either God directly causes something or that He permits something (evil) to happen. This isn’t God speaking with a forked tongue (whatever that means). Rather it is a truth taught in scripture. God doesn’t directly cause evil. For this would make Him the author of evil. Rather He permits it (for morally sufficient reasons) to bring about His overall plans and purposes. His permitting evil it is a kind of indirect causing. That is, His permission is a kind of secondary causing not a direct causing. For example: Satan gets permission from God to torment Job. God allowed Satan to take Job’s family and make Job sick. Yet Job says, “The Lord has given and the Lord has taken away” and “Shall we recieve good from God and shall we not recieve evil” - to which the writer responds: “In all this Job did not sin with his lips”. As Theodore Beza has stated:

When God permits evil He has morally sufficient reasons for doing so. That is, God’s intentions are good, Satan’s intentions are evil. One act - two intentions. What Satan means for evil God means for good.

#2

Cole

My friend. I’m sure you are sincerely trying to defend the Calvinist doctrine you think you must subscribe to (for whatever reason) at this present time.

May I ask you a very simple, straightforward question regarding the quotation from Theodore Baza (of whom I have not heard, and know nothing about). Mr Baza says:

So, “nothing happens” without “God’s most righteous decree”. Right? Which surely, in plain English, means that *everything *that happens is righteously decreed by God. Agreed?

But how then, if *everything *that happens is decreed by God, can it be true that God is *not *the author of sin? If I commit murder, and that act of murder was righteously decreed by God as you and Theo say it is, then it is a logical certainty that God decreed a sinful act. Unless suddenly murder isnt’ a sin? Or unless God didn’t decree the act of murder. In which case some things do indeed happen without God’s righteous decree …

You will forgive me if I am a tad confused here.

Shalom

Johnny

#3

IF God does not directly cause evil, and evil happens without God’s knowledge, or power. Then your God is weak and evil has overcome.

To be the Creator of all things, includes everything, and Scripture says specifically, the only thing not Created is Himself. To be creator of Evil, does not make Him evil since He Himself does not do evil. Like the men created the gunpowder, doesn’t make him the murderer of millions who use it in guns to kill each other.

A proper understanding of non-concrete ideas needs to be understood. Else you just look foolish. God is indeed the Author of Evil.

#4

I don’t know what else to say. I explained it in the OP. God permits evil. This is a type of secondary causing since God knows all the factors involved and what effects they will have and He could prevent any outcome. His permission is an indirect causing not a direct causing. God doesn’t coerce sin.

#5

If God did not create sin and evil, then who did? To say that either man or Satan created it is to tread into the realm of dualistic theology. Even though the theological proclamation of dualism may be absent from such a theology, it is definitely asserting itself in psychological terms.

#6

God simply removes His restraing hands of grace off of the hearts of people and the desire for sin is given birth. When people sin they are acting according to their own wills and evil desires.

#7

That’s not answering the question. It’s just an attempt at a “chicken or the egg” dodge.

#8

I don’t see how.

#9

Let’s distill it a bit

#10

Let me suggest you go back and re-read what I’ve already stated. The desire for sin was given birth when God removed His restaining hands of grace off of Satan’s heart. Satan then sinned of his own will, acting according to his own evil desires.

#11

If you can’t see how your response didn’t answer the question of, “Who created sin and evil”, then it would stand to reason that you believe sin and evil either a) do not exist, or b) that sin and evil were pre-existent and un-created by God, which is purely dualistic theology.

Let me suggest that you go back and figure out whether or not Satan was a created being, and exactly who created the evil desires that were in his heart.

I really think that you’re just being completely disingenuous.

#12

But if Satan sinned of his own will, who created a ‘satan’ WITH such a will? God created satan to be exactly what satan is. If He did not, then He is not fully in charge.

#13

God is in charge when He permits evil. This is a type of secondary causing since God knows all the factors involved and what effects they will have and He could prevent any outcome. His permission is an indirect causing not a direct causing.

#14

No. God created satan to perform exactly as he does (according to your view). Satan had no choice, neither did Adam, no-one has any choice. God is entirely responsible. But even if this were not true and God were only indirectly responsible, so what?
If I throw a child into a bear pit and it is savaged, I suppose the fact that I was the indirect cause of his death removes from me all culpability.
I get it.

#15

No. You obviously don’t know my view. Satan was created good. Then God removed His hands of grace off his heart (for morally sufficient reasons) and the desire for sin was given birth. Satan then acted according to his own evil desires.

#16

And you still haven’t answered where that evil came from. Did Satan create them himself? Or was it a part of the totality of creation?

If you say Satan created that evil, then you are functioning as a dualist, since the creation of something as far-reaching and pervasive as evil would be a function of a godlike power.

#17

I did answer the question. About five times now.

#18

No, not once have you given a simple, honest answer to a very simple question. You dance and dodge, and then you whine like a schoolgirl when someone holds your feet to the fire for your intellectual dishonesty. And the truth of the matter is that the only person that you’re really being dishonest to is yourself

It’s a very simple, one-word answer to the question, “Who,* exactly*, created the evil desire in Satan’s heart?”

#19

God doesn’t create evil in anybody’s heart. He removes His hand of grace off of the heart and evil desires are given birth. You seem to have alot of hate in your heart.

#20

And now you start with the* ad hominems*, when you know absolutely nothing about me. But, by all means, deflect blame upon me, rather than try to defend your own confusing position.

These desires are given birth/created how and by whom?

John 1:3,* NASB* "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

If God was not the one that created evil, then the only alternative that remains is that evil does not exist. That is an extremely difficult position to take and defend.