Does God’s love preserve our free will, or does it free our enslaved will which has become unfree though the power of sin? Does God love free men and women, or does he seek the men and women who have become lost.
I think that God develops our wills and sets us free from the domination of our flesh so that we can BECOME free.
Yep, freedom is a process.
To be enslaved is not tantamount to having lost the ability to choose. Even people who have become the slaves of other people have sometimes chosen to disobey their masters, even if it meant unpleasant consequences.
Being a slave to sin does not imply that one cannot choose not to commit some particular sin. For example, some who have been slaves of drink have at some time in their lives chosen to quit drinking entirely, and have succeeded. Some such people who have done so, had never been Christians in any period in their lives.
When we come to know and love God with all our hearts minds and souls, we will naturally want to do everything He says. We feel it in our hearts if we do otherwise. This eventually frees us from sin. Love attracts. So when we reach out to others and show them love, we in turn point the way to God.
Ain’t that wonnerful? (i agree)
I think we don’t understand free will, because we’ve almost never seen it fully in action.
Currently, my will is in bondage…i have my own desires (which are sometimes imitated or inherited, and maybe other times they are uniquely my own, but it’s hard to know which until a desire is changed, and desires may change regardless) which cause me to choose in certain ways. I am also prone to the fear of death/pain which certainly influences my choices.
I am subject to the occasional need to defend ideologies i hold dear for whatever reason, even when defending it doesn’t help, and sometimes does the exact opposite
To sum up, my ignorance of the consequences of my actions enslaves me. My fleeting desires enslave me. My fear of the unknown enslaves me.
Without these things i would likely act totally differently. For example, if i had foreknowledge of the lottery numbers, i’d lose my disdain for it and buy a ticket with the right numbers. If i knew that my parachute would definitely open and my fear of heights was gone, i’d probably try skydiving. I’d swim with great white sharks if i didn’t fear a bite…
I’d act with greater compassion for others if i knew their circumstances, and wasn’t so afraid of jeopardising my own.
Remove ignorance and fear, and there suddenly is freedom. That seems to be supported by the idea that the Truth shall set us free.
I guess to summarise what i’m sure is an incredibly messy argument, I think our will is not free…i think our will becomes free in Christ, as a process with a glorious ending, where we know the freedom to be all we want to be, with no chance of acting out of selfish interest or fear, because we will have the knowledge and courage to act to the best of our abilities.
I agree, James. As Don says, we do have the ability to chose this or that at any given juncture. Nevertheless, I think we are being made free, rather than at this point being already as free as Father wants us to be.
Yes, Cindy, Messiah liberates us through his death and resurrection. As the rousing song goes:
Free, free, free!
I have been set free!
I have met a man,
The man from Galilee.
He took away my sin,
My heavy load of sin,
And now I’m shouting, “Glory, hallelujah!”
I don’t think anyone in this forum denies that Messiah Jesus sets us free and is setting us free.
The point I have been arguing is that being in bondage does not imply that our free will (the ability to choose) has become demolished. I get the impression that some are saying or implying that it is. Even when the blacks in America were literally enslaved, they still had the ability to choose. Some of them even chose to rebel against their “masters”, even though they were aware of the terrible consequences. So also, those who are now enslaved by sin. They haven’t lost the ability to choose. But when they submit to Messiah Jesus and appropriate the enabling grace of God made available through the Messiah, they find it much easier to choose the right and eschew the wrong.
Absolutely, Don!