i compare 1 cor 15 with luke 1:33
i have already asked this question on another website
thank you for your help
i compare 1 cor 15 with luke 1:33
Luke 1:33 (along with many others) is very clear that His reign shall have no end; but of course 1 Cor 15 is very clear that in some way Christ’s reign shall have an end.
Based on the contexts of 1 Cor 15, the reign that will end is (if I may use an English pun) the “reining in” of remaining rebels. (“Reign” and “rein” are closely related in English.) When Christ has finished guiding them into line and bringing them under loyal cooperation with Him, or putting them under His feet as it says in the scripture, then the “reining” phase of His “reign” will be finished. They will be subject to Him along with people already loyal (we’re explicitly included in the “all things under His feet”, too), with the same loyalty that the Son has for the Father.
Not subject to Him in a secretly rebellious and hypocritical way: that isn’t how the Son is subject to the Father!
And not annihilated out of existence: they couldn’t be subject to Him then!
And not remaining utterly unsubjected to Him: the whole thrust of Paul’s explanation of the importance of the general resurrection (not merely the importance of Christ’s resurrection, which his Corinthian opponents apparently didn’t doubt) is that everyone must become subject to Christ eventually.
Also, they must become subject to Him in some way that they weren’t already subjected to Him when He is reigning!–for He doesn’t stop reigning (in this sense) until they are subjected to Him.
Christian universalism is the only way to add up and include all the points of data there, I think. There has to be some kind of temporary reigning that ends with all things becoming subjected to Christ in a way they weren’t yet all subject to Christ during this temporary reigning phase, yet concludes with Christ continuing to reign (as promised in many other scriptures) in a fashion that no longer involves the temporary reigning.
I’ll suggest a somewhat divergent opinion from Jason’s from the following url:https://www.christianforums.com/threads/two-questions.8069145/page-6
It says “ages”. What it means is a matter of interpretation & context. Translations should honestly state what a text says, not give their biased interpretations of what it means. Interpretations should be left to the reader.
Darby Bible Translation
Lk.1:33 and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for the ages, and of his kingdom there shall not be an end.
And i could add several more almost identical literal translations, unlike the deceptive version you posted with “forever” in it.
That is your interpretation based on your assumption(s). OTOH, Scripture says:
1 Cor.15:24 Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power.
25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
Which i believe to mean that Christ’s reign ends. In that light i take it that His “reign…for the ages” (Lk.1:33) is finite. From that it follows that those “ages” must be finite. Likewise with His reign “into the ages of the ages” (Rev.11:15):
And the seventh messenger did sound, and there came great voices in the heaven, saying, ‘The kingdoms of the world did become those of our Lord and of His Christ, and he shall reign to the ages of the ages!’ (YLT)
Please note that Christ reigns for “the ages” (Lk.1:33; Rev.11:15), not just an age.
To answer your question, one explanation is the kingdom remains His, Christ’s, even after He ceases to reign & gives it up to the Father (cf. 1 Cor.15:24-25), because all that the Father has is His also: All things that the Father hath are mine…(Jn.16:15b; cf. 17:10).
To illustrate consider a fictional company i’ll call Microsoft which is co-owned by a father & son. The son is running the company’s daily operations while the father sips martinis in the Caribbean. Later the son gives the running of this company & its daily operations to the father. Does that mean the company is no longer co-owned by the father & the son? No, the company is still co-owned. But as to the running of it, that’s in the father’s hands now. The son’s reign was temporary.
God as “all in all” (1 Cor.15:28) has nothing to do with authority, but God “in” every being who ever lived. “To say that “all in all” signifies “the manifestation of God’s supremacy”…is very far indeed from the truth…When we say “Christ is my all,” what do we mean? That He is our Lord? Yes, and our Saviour and Friend and our Lover, our Wisdom and our Righteousness, and our Holiness–He is everything to us!..And that is just what God wishes to be and what He will be!..Will He be this only in some? No! He will be All in all!..we have said that when the last enemy [death] is abolished, then the Son abdicates and God becomes All in all. If there were still enmity we might imagine God being over all, but with all enmity gone, it is easy to see how He can become All in all…The “kingdom” is given up to the Father, after all sovereignty and authority and power have been abrogated. What kind of a “supremacy” will God “fully manifest” which has no power, no authority, no sovereignty? Thank God, all these elements, which characterized government during the eons, will be utterly unnecessary when the Son of God is finished with His “mediatorial” work. Instead of God’s supremacy being fully manifested at that time, it will be entirely absent, and God, as Father, will guide His family by the sweet constraint of love.” (AE Knoch).
As an interesting though non authoritative aside:
“Compare moreover the apocalyptic book 2 Baruck (or Syriac Baruck, ascribed to a date of approximately 30 to 50 years after 70 AD; J.H. Charlesworth ABD I 620). 2 Baruck 40:3 states about the Annointed One (40:1) that his dominion will last forever until the world of corruption has ended and until the times which have been mentioned before have been fulfilled” (translation A.F.J. Klijn in Charlesworth I (1983) with note: “The rule of the Annointed One seems to be of a limited time.”). Ferch (1977) 148-149: " “forever must be understood relatively, viz. until the age of corruption is ended” (“Life Time Entirety. A Study of AION in Greek Literature and Philosophy, the Septuagint and Philo”, Heleen M. Keizer, 2010, p.134).
Neither is “all rule and authority and power” yet nullified (1 Cor.15:24) by Revelation 21-22. There are still kings in the earth (Rev.21:24). There is still the throne of the Lamb & the saints reigning (22:3,5). So neither is death abolished or God yet “all in all” (1Cor.15:28).https://www.christianforums.com/threads/two-questions.8069145/page-6
The two passages are very clear—that Christ’s reign will come to and end, whereas His Kingdom will never end.
For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
(1 Corinthians 15:22-25 ESV)
This passage affirms two facts: 1) That Christ must reign UNTIL He has put all his enemies under his feet, and 2) Then He delivers the Kingdom to God the Father.
So Christ’s REIGN in His Kingdom will end. But the passage DOES NOT affirm that His KINGDOM will come to an end, but rather that it will be handed over to the Father.
And what does the other passage say?
He shall be great, and Son of the Highest he shall be called, and the Lord God shall give him the throne of David his father, and he shall reign over the house of Jacob to the ages;
(Luke 1:32,33a Young’s Literal Translation)
Yes, it does not say that He shall reign “forever,” but that He shall reign “εις τους αιωνους” (to the ages) as YLT affirms. I think “the ages” refers to those future eternal ages after the Millennial reign of Christ has been completed. He will reign UP TO the eternal ages, and then turn His Kingdom over to His Father, who will then reign in that Kingdom forever.
…and of his kingdom there will be no end." (Luke 1:33b ESV)
Christ’s Kingdom will have no end, but Christ’s reign in it will end at the time He turns it over to His Father, that God may be All-in-all! Hallelujah!
Or there is another way of looking at it… “For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet” doesn’t necessitate Christ’s rule actually ending any more than when Paul said… “Till I come, give attention to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine” meant that thereafter all such could cease. Not only that, but if their kingdoms are one and the same (Eph 5:5) then likewise their rule, i.e., “at my right hand” etc.
I could see that if that were all there was to the quote. But it is immediately preceded by the following words:
But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
He doesn’t continue to reign in the Kingdom but DELIVERS THE KINGDOM TO GOD THE FATHER.
Also Paul concludes a few verses later with these words:
When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
This also indicates that the Son will not continue to rule but to be subject the Supreme Ruler, God the Father, who will be “all in all” forever.
My thoughts would be that like David, Christ the son of David, would deliver up in worshipful honour to the Father the nations brought under him… that would in no way impede Christ’s rule — it didn’t David’s.
This would only again reflect the heart of Christ (without affecting his rule) who though being appointed equal with the Father never used such to usurp but counted and courted the honour of obedience.
I could be wrong…
32 He= [jeus/christ] will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God = [Tetragrammaton] will give
Him = [jesus/christ] the throne of His father David. 33 And He = [jesus/ christ] will reign over the house of Jacob forever/ = [Age Long] and of His = [God/Tetragrammaton] kingdom there will be no end.”
So a reading for understanding purposes would read rather like this :————-
“Jesus will be great and will be called the son of the highest, And the Lord God will give jesus Christ the throne of his father David. And Jesus Christ will reign over the house of Jacob into the age/s. And of Gods kingdom there will be no end”
Christ will rule over his fathers coming kingdom, here on earth. Christ taught as follows :———
9 “In this manner, therefore, pray: Our
*Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your *
name,10 Your kingdom come, Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven”
Christ will not reign forever. Man kind wont need babysitting forever. When the job has been done, Christ himself will be subjected back to his God and Father and will rule no more in Gods kingdom. God will become all in all.
1 Corinthians 15: 24 + 28
24 Then comes the end, when He = [christ] delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
28 Now when all things are made subject
to Him = [christ] then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him = [God / Tetragrammaton] who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
Jesus/Christ, was the first born among many brethren, Romans 8:29. After his resurrection [ie] being born from the dead, he ascended to his God and Father who is our God and Father, Jhon 20:17. Christ is our brother who has had the highest possible rule and authority given to him by his father and God Matt 28:18. Many will be chosen to rule with Christ Rev 1:6 + Rev 20:4. But at the end of the given age/s [ALL] who have ruled with Christ including, Christ will be subject again to God as God becomes all in all.
Unfortunately Trinity theology and bible translations make difficult, what would otherwise be pretty straight forward reading.