The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Hello, Thanks and Dostoyevsky

Evangelical Universalism
#1

Hi Folks,

I just wanted to say that I recently (few months ago) made a shift from annihiliationism to evangelical universalism, and that this website contributed in a positive way to my theological change.

As way of thanks, here’s a couple of quotes taken from The Brothers Karamazov (Penguin Classics edn):

‘But do you wish to punish him terribly, ferociously, with the most dreadful punishment that one may imagine, but with the purpose of saving and regenerating his soul for ever? If so, then crush him with your mercy! You will see, you will hear his soul shudder, show horror. “Am I to endure this mercy, am I to recieve all this love, am I worthy of it?” - that is what he will exclaim! Oh, I know, I know this heart … It will bow down before your pious deed, it will thirst for a great act of love, it will burn aloft and be resurrected forever … Crush this soul with mercy, show it love, and it will curse its handiwork, for within it there are so many good beginnings. The soul will grow enlarged and will behold how merciful God is, how fair and just are men. He will be horrified and crushed by the repentance and the numberless debt that stands before him from this day … Justice is not the retribution merely, but also the salvation of the ruined man … Let other nations have the letter and the retribution, we have the spirit and the sense, the salvation and regeneration of the ruined.’

And:

’ “Karamavoz!” Kolya cried, “is it true what religion says, that we shall all rise up from the dead and come to life and see one another again, and everyone, even Ilyushechka?”
"Without question we shall rise, without question we shall see one another and joyfully tell one another everything that has happened,’ half-laughing, half in ecstasy, Alyosha replied.
“Oh, how good that will be!” burst from Kolya. ’

Thanks :slight_smile:

#2

Hi pog :slight_smile:

Welcome along, and thanks for the great quotes.

#3

Hello Pog and welcome. I too am a former Annihilationist. Have on my reading list ‘The Brothers Karamazov’, reading your two quotes there has reminded me.
Thanks Cheers S

#4

Any fan of Dostoyevsky is a friend of mine :smiley:

#5

Hey! I’m reading that one now – only I haven’t got that far. Mostly because I’m also reading probably a dozen other books right now. I used to read them one at a time. That was back in the old days, when I was sane and orderly. :laughing: :unamused:

It’s a great book, but I have come to the conclusion thus far that all the characters (save perhaps Alexi) are nuts. Are Russians really like that – so dramatic and over the top? I’ve only ever met a couple and they seemed pretty normal to me, but I didn’t get a chance to get to know them very well. :confused:

#6

Thanks for the kind welcome all.

I can’t speak for Russians, cindy, but the characters in Karamazov (and suppossedly all Dostoyevskian fiction, though I’ve only read *Crime & Punishment *and Karamazov) are certainly hyper-passionate! Not so much real in expression, but real in emotion - if you see what I mean. I think Tolstoy said something about Dostoyevsky’s characters being more emotionally true than reflecting how real people talk …

Hope you get through Karamavoz - I found it hard going, especially in places. But it’s worth going on with, and gives you plenty to think about :slight_smile:

#7

Welcome Pog!

Glad to have you here. Tell us some more about yourself!

Blessings,
Sherman

#8

Hi Sherman.

Not much to say, really (and I’m very cautious about personal info on the web).

I’m a young guy, married with a young child, living in the UK. Been a xtian for about 16 or so years, though always believed in God and had a vague Christian upbringing/culture (no church, but just something in the background). Theologically I’ve held many positions over the years - I change my mind fairly often (which may not be a good thing). At the moment I’d describe myself as post-evangelical, open theist, evolutionist, tend towards free will and cosmic warfare theodices (amongst others), charismatic-ish, hopefully agnostic inclusivist, trinitarian, and now a dogmatic universalist :slight_smile:

Also, I tend to be a bad speller, and post erratically on forums (sometimes very active, other times silent for ages).

#9

Thanks for sharing pog. It’s a privaledge to get to know you.

Blessings,
Sherman

#10

Hi Pog, welcome! nice to have another person from the UK join us!
i’m another that came via annihilationism…and most DEFINITELY post-evangelical. at times almost ex-!

#11

Hi Pog

Greetings from a fellow inhabitant of the land of Shakespeare, cricket and warm beer (which I hate - warm beer, that is :smiley: ).

Cheers

Johnny

#12

Pog - you can’t be a worse speller than me. are we to b rivals for the prize of best worst speller on site :laughing:

P.S. I wasn’t oign to sya - but I think some of Ivan Karamazov’s horror stories would be good food for thought on the ‘Does God create evil?’ site. Although they are only give a limited perspective on the issue that needs to be set alongside the persectives of Zossima etc in the novel, Ivan sure knows how to frame the challenges!

#13

Johnny - yes, it is good to be an Englishman :slight_smile:, “Remember that you are a human being with a soul and the divine gift of articulate speech, that your native language is the language of Shakespeare and Milton and The Bible. Don’t sit there crooning like a bilious pigeon” (-Henry Higgins).

Sobornost, I haven’t read any of his short fiction - sounds interesting. No doubt I’ll get round to it one day! And yes, Ivan is brutal in his challenge: it does us good to hear that voice.