Hope Beyond Hell (The Best Book On The Market)

[Cole]

In his book “Hope Beyond Hell” the Christian Universalist, Gerry Beauchmin, has a section that I would agree with totally. He believes in the complete sovereignty of God and denies “free will”. This is what I believe. God is completely sovereign but the paradox is that man is responsible. pp. 39-40

And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live. Deut. - 30:6

I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted. - Job 42:2

Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand. - Proverbs 19:21

A man’s steps are from the Lord; how then can man understand his way? - Proverbs 20:24

The king’s heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord; he turns it wherever he will. - Proverbs 21:1

declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’ calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country. I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it. - Isaiah 46:10-11

I will give them a heart to know that I am the Lord, and they shall be my people and I will be their God, for they shall return to me with their whole heart. - Jeremiah 24:7

all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?” - Daniel 4:35

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. - John 6:44

So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. - Romans 9-16

You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” - Romans 9:19

for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. - Revelation 17:17

[Cindy_Skillman]

Maybe [tag]Gerry Beauchemin[/tag] would like to weigh in on this himself, if he has time. He may not, as he’s got a lot going on with illness in the family just now, but if he can, it would be good to hear from him, himself, as to what he believes.

[Cole]

Who is in control here? Man or God? Whose will prevails…What has happened to GOD? Our tradition has pawned His power off to man in the myth of “free” will. - Hope Beyond Hell pp. 40-41

The book is available online at Hope Beyond Hell.

[Cindy_Skillman]

Yes I know, Cole. Here’s the link: Hope Beyond Hell, and I’ve read it several times and looked up and noted down all the scriptures. I’m not sure you have a handle on how Gerry feels about Calvinism though – I wouldn’t presume to say that I do – so it would be nice to let him speak for himself if he has the time.

BTW, if you do want a book on Christian universalism from a Calvinist perspective, Jan Bonda’s “The One Purpose of God” is excellent.

Now I agree with you that there are two groups: those who run the race to win the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus – the first fruits – those who are honored with the ministry of reconciliation. As to whether that’s a closed group at this time, I don’t pretend to know. That’s my view for now until or unless someone comes along and shows me I’ve been mistaken about it. However I don’t think your view and mine completely coincide (but then which two people could ever say that unequivocally?) Could it be that those who are predestined and called are not a fixed group, but consist of those who respond with faith to the message preached? God after all, isn’t bound by the 4th dimension – certainly not where the past (which I believe does exist) is concerned. The future I’m not certain about – I’m not certain it exists yet. But the past? Yes. And for God I believe it’s not a problem to predestine those who respond in faith after (but placing the predestination back in time so that it ends up being before) they give themselves to Christ. If He wants to do it that way (which perhaps He does), I don’t think it’s a logical impossibility at all.

I do believe in a sort of predestination, but that we, by responding in faith, choose to run that race, and that anyone who does respond in faith can be among the elect. It isn’t a closed group. That wouldn’t be like Father, imo. He’s promised to restore to us the years the locust has eaten. If He can do that, He can predestine the elect AFTER they become the elect.

[Cole]

Hey Cindy,

I read that book and the author doesn’t believe in limited atonement like I do. I still believe that everybody is going to be saved though.

[Cole]

Cindy,

I must hold to God’s total control. I learned it in A.A. before I learned it from John Piper.

[Cole]

And acceptance is the answer to all my problems today. When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing or situation - some fact of my life - unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment. Nothing, absolutely nothing happens in God’s world by mistake. Until I could accept my alcoholism, I could not stay sober; unless I can accept life completely on life’s terms, I cannot be happy. I need to concentrate not so much on what needs to be changed in the world as on what needs to be changed in me and in my attitudes. - Big Book Of Alcoholics Anonymous

[Cindy_Skillman]

Cole, if you believe in limited atonement – that is to say that Jesus didn’t die for all – that He isn’t the Savior of the world – then how do the non-elect receive salvation? Do they earn it by their own sufferings in punishment? If that’s the case, if we can set ourselves free from sin by suffering a limited time in hell, then why ever did Jesus need to die to save us?

I believe that the suffering of some in a hell (not literal flames) helps them to understand their sin and to desire to let go of that sin and receive the salvation bought, paid for, won for ALL by Jesus on the cross & in the harrowing of hell & in His resurrection and ascension. Without Jesus, no one can come to the Father – because Jesus is the door of the sheep. There is no other way. You may come to the Father through hell, but if you do, it will finally be by passing from hell and through the rent veil of the temple – symbolic of Jesus’ torn body – into the Holy of Holies, the presence of God.

[Cole]

To be fair to Gerry, one can hold that God is in control and all will eventually be saved. In fact, the reason a lot of Christians have hope is because God is in control. They not only have faith in Jesus but God the Father as well. They trust that God brings beauty out of ashes and this gives them hope. There’s nothing wrong with this. As the Christian philosopher Alvin Plantinga has shown, if God has morally justifiable reasons for permitting evil and suffering then He does nothing wrong in permitting it. My job as a follower of Christ is to trust Him, take care of myself, and help others. God doesn’t cause evil and suffering on this view. He PERMITS IT.

[Cole]

Here’s something I worked out on my own. Tell me what you think:

When speaking to the elect Jesus tells them that all will be justified because all have died (spiritually) in Adam. These are the first fruits.

But we must always give thanks to God for you, brothers and sisters beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and through belief in the truth. - 2 Thessalonians 2:13

This verse speaks of the Christians who are chosen by grace in this lifetime called the first fruits. They are saved by the Spirit and through faith in the truth. What Paul is saying here is that Christians (first fruits) are saved by belief in this lifetime. I say this lifetime because if Christians are the first fruits then this implies that there are second fruits. The fact that Paul refers to Christians as first fruits and not the “only” fruits shows this.

Although Paul tells us that the first fruits are saved by the Spirit and faith he doesn’t tell us how the second fruits will be saved. We do get a clue however in Luke 3:15-17:

As the people were in expectation, and all were questioning in their hearts concerning John, whether he might be the Christ, John answered them all, saying, “I baptize you with water, but he who is mightier than I is coming, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

According to this passage it’s the unquenchable fire that Jesus baptizes in. This is the Lake Of Fire And Sulfur. HELPS Word Study states:

4442 pyr - fire. In scripture, fire is often used figuratively - like with the “fire of God” which transforms all it touches into light and likeness with itself.]4442 pyr - fire. In scripture, fire is often used figuratively - like with the “fire of God” which transforms all it touches into light and likeness with itself.

The Greek word for sulfur is theion and is described as divine incense, because burning brimstone was regarded as having power to purify, and to ward off disease. The Jewish culture used sulfur in purification rites:

blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2303&t=KJV

In the Bible God can and does use fire not only to punish and correct but to purify. The word usage and meanings in “The Lake Of Fire” make that likely. The Bible elsewhere states that God is the savior of all people. Especially of them that believe. So, some are saved by grace through faith in this lifetime others by fire in the next.

Faith is for this age not the next. The sheep are saved by grace through faith in this lifetime. The goats undergo the corrective purification of Christ in the lake of fire in the next. When we all embrace Christ in the next life the faith of the elect will pass away.

“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen”(Heb.11:1).

“For we walk by faith, not by sight” (2 Cor. 5:7).

Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? - Romans 8:24

“For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known”. (1 Cor. 13:12)

The objects of faith and hope will be fulfilled and perfectly realized in heaven, but love will last forever. In heaven there will be nothing but perfect expression of love towards God and each other. As Ignatius has stated in his commentary on 1 Corinthians 13:13-

The translation is misleading because it fails to render the Greek adverb nuni (now). Paul is not saying that all three virtues are eternal, but instead he ties them to the present age. Faith and hope will pass away when we see the Lord in heaven and possess the eternal happiness we yearned for in this life. But “love” never ends (13:8). Rather than passing away, love reaches perfection in the everlasting embrace of the Trinity that awaits the saints beyond this life. (IGNATIUS Catholic Study Bible footnote)

The first will be last and the last will be first. But we will all make it.