Jason.
Lol. No, I’m asking you to testify. How much power do you walk in? How many people have you set free from sickness in Jesus name? Do you just walk in words only or do you walk in the God given authority Jesus died for you to walk in? Paul said, “the kingdom of God is not consist in words but in POWER”!! If Apostle Paul came to you, Jason, would he find the articulate words of those who are arrogant, or the power you walk in?( 1Cor 4:20) Which one?
Born Again and again (a little free will humor for you),
I think there are some valid points that you make concerning Lydia but I don’t feel they alleviate the burden placed upon the free will positon.
So I’ll take it point by point.
2)Lydia Heard then heeded
** same point** this point too also ignores the fact that the reason she gave them her ear was because God was already having mercy on her and preparing her for the very encounter.
Ultimatley this brings us full circle: What was her heart like prior to God opening it for the gospel? Was she Righteouss prior to being opened or was she wicked? I recommend Romans 3 for the answer.
and This statment:
It is a plain fact that there is no mention in Acts 16:13-15 of the direct working of the Spirit of God. To assert that God used that means to prompt obedience from Lydia is to inject something into the scriptures that just isn’t there. What is there, plainly, is the gospel message “spoken by Paul.”
Actually it is a plain fact that there is no mention in Acts 16:13-15 of the indirect working of the Spirit of God. To assert that God used other means to prompt obedience from Lydia is to inject something into the scriptures that just isn’t there…
Thats the point bro, Not even calvinist care if God opened her heart using a defibulator or car battery. What matters to the calvinist is HER HEART WAS CLOSED PRIOR TO GOD’S OPENING IT AND THERFORE SHE HAD NO CHOICE IN BELEIVING IN AND OF HERSELF.
The method is hardly the debate, what matters is can you prove that she before her heart being opened could have bellieved the gospel OR could you prove that AFTER God opened her heart she could reject the gospel.
Sorry to take so long but so everyone here might understand, I was not conceeding your post at all by taking my time
LOL! You my friend are a legend in your own mind LOL (I say that in humor).
— copied from "further thoughts on UR —
Auggy.
Born again: No assuming, it says she was a worshiper.
Born Again: Lydia gave attention to the gospel…God opened her heart…she believed. She did not believe because God open her heart. The text does not support that.
Thats the point bro, Not even calvinist care if God opened her heart using a defibulator or car battery. What matters to the calvinist is HER HEART WAS CLOSED PRIOR TO GOD’S OPENING IT AND THERFORE SHE HAD NO CHOICE IN BELEIVING IN AND OF HERSELF.
Born Again: Lydia worshiped God…if you worship God your heart is not closed to him. Again, God did not open Lydia’s heart to hear the gospel…Lydia gave attention to the gospel herself…God open her heart…Lydia believed and was baptized.
Paul actually contradicts BA’s assertions concerning the Gospel as being the only thing people can understand.
1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”
Of course, BA would misunderstand this to say, “See, there are only some who will be saved!” However, BA doesn’t believe in annihilation of sinners but the eternal torment of them. So he has to somehow justify that ‘perishing’ somehow means ‘everlasting torture’ and not death. This would also alienate what most Christian Universalists believe, many know that there are people perishing whether go into soul sleep into the ground called ‘hell’, or a place of torment in the realm of the dead called ‘hell’ and many are not saved this fate through their unbelief, but rather the end result of God’s purpose of creation is that in the end all things are and will be reconciled to a perfect state with God meaning the ending death and torment for those who found themselves in ‘hell’.
As 2 Corinthians 5:15 says, “And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.” and we know that not all will chose to live for him in this age or the age to come so they will go through the tribulation (a severe trial or suffering) which those who did trust in the Lord do not need to go through to attain the same result.
As I said before, everyone has a choice according to their freedom of will, but what God chooses for all humanity is within His Will and which is outside ours will is excluded from our freedom of will to dictate.
Craig.
Read my Topic :“1 Cor 2:14 can an unsaved man understand the bible” to understand what I believe. Thanks.
Already read it, how about you answer Jason’s questions and address the contradictions of your belief that he pointed out.
Far be it from me to presume what St. Paul would find in me; I am more concerned about what Jesus will find in me when He returns. But, if you insist on going this route.
How does it seem to you?–which is the arrogance? To boast about works of power, or of other good works? Or to not even let one’s left hand know what the right hand is doing? When St. Paul believes he has to list off his works of power or his good deeds, because (apparently) this or that congregation was wanting to know what right he had to address them, is he happy to do so? Or would he rather have kept silent? Does he consider his boasting the proper thing to do for his own sake, or does he consider it inappropriate and is aggrieved that he has to come to this because his stubborn audience just won’t take him seriously? How have you read it?
Jesus allows that those may come to faith by means of believing in His works of power; but is this the way He prefers? Or does He consider the works of power to be a distraction of sorts from His teaching? (And would you say His teaching is inarticulate or articulate? Would you think more highly of His Pharisee enemies had they complained about His teaching being articulate and lengthy?) How have you found it? And which would you, in your wisdom, judge as the arrogant man? Christ for refusing to answer the Sadducees and Pharisees who demand that He validate what He’s saying by means of a work of power? Surely, it must not be those Pharisees, for trying to get out of dealing with what He was teaching by such a route!–or maybe you would think so. I will not guess. You can answer, as you have answered all my other inquiries already. (Which, frankly, is only how I expect you to answer these questions as well. But, you could surprise me instead, I guess.)
I call the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit to witness, I am not happy to do this. And I do not believe for one single moment that this will do any good at all. (Though again, I wouldn’t mind being wrong about that.) God knows, I do not claim to compare to St. Paul. Is it fit for me to tell of such things?? And how would you know that I told the truth in any case?
I have dissipated tornadic storms by prayer. (God knows, I would rather not be saying these things…) I have calmed and cured some people suffering disturbances. Not very many, but who am I to talk of myself? I have been granted dreams that told of things; they happened later. There was no way that I could have known that my brother and sister would move to Lexington, KY; but I was shown by God, pointing to that place. About 40 days after I swore my heart and loyalty to Christ, repenting of my sins, back in my youth, I was wakened in a dream and called out of my house to be given to someone outside the fence of our yard: an unborn girl, awakening in her mothers womb that night. Angels were singing her awake. By miracles later I unexpectedly found her; and miracles still are pointing in her direction. Who am I to speak of such things? (Nothing has ever shown me that she is for me. But I have done the best I can for her, in sacrifice. God showed me how much it would hurt.) By miracles I have been answer to prayer of other people, allowing them to survive when they would have starved to death. Let them speak about it.
Where I am called, I am more of support or preparation for others to evangelize. Not everyone is a hand or eye. I have no complaints. If you care to boast that I am not a hand like you, but only a foot, well, surely you have read somewhere that that is by God appropriate behavior for a member of the body. I have read differently, though.
How many demons, dare I say it, have you evangelized and led to repent and return to the Father? God knows how many I have led. four or five; maybe six. I do not say such things expecting anyone to believe me though. Really, I would rather not be saying such things at all. sigh.
That is all I can think of. And I am not sure I would say any more, if anything else I had done came to mind.
Now be gone. Or answer what I have asked. I will not adjure you by the living God to do so.
That was a fine testimony, Craig. Thank you. 
I much appreciate it.
That being said, this is the internet. Most things of this sort that happen are not easily verifiable. (Also they can be very private and/or involve the privacy of other people.)
I don’t like typing out claims of the sort I made above. Why? Because anyone can do that. True, I am not hiding behind a total pseudonym with no verifiable identity checks (neither are you, of course); but neither do I happen to be in any position to provide details that can be verified by other people. (Well, one person could, to some extent, but I don’t expect that to happen; and I wouldn’t want it to happen anyway, for sake of that person’s privacy.) Why should I insist that other people believe me? The simple answer is that I don’t, and so I don’t put people in the position of having to choose to believe me or not on such things.
Besides, I absolutely consider myself to be very minor in such regards.
Plus–and this is of most importance to me–I would simply rather that God have the credit for doing such things. It wasn’t by any power of mine anyway. And the easiest way for people not to be distracted for thanking God for such things, is not to mention my involvement at all.
So, if everyone would kindly proceed to forget about anything I wrote in that comment after reading it, thank you. I would rather concentrate on discussing things that are publicly accessible to everyone, at least in principle, regardless of what they believe.
Ok you didn’t understand the post. Of course everyone knows that. What you are stating is based on silence. You are saying that because the scriptures do not state that God was already dealing with Lydia, he MUST NOT HAVE BEEN. Either you mis-read my post or you are dodging the hard truth.
Are you saying that if God had not opened her heart SHE WOULD HAVE BELIEVED? I don’t know how much simpler it could be…If God does not open her heart to heed (as you stated) then her heart is closed as it was before God opened it. Let me put it this way.
I need to put some water in a bottle.
The bottle is closed.
But when I saw that time was right, I opened the bottle and poured the water in.
PRIOR to me opening the bottle, the water could not go in.
BUT after I opened the bottle, I could pour the water in.
So Lydia was righteouss and then God opened her heart to accept what was rightouess (gospel). LOL! No wonder the calvinists don’t take Free will serious. If you cannot at least roll with the punches then how can you expect people to take you serious.
Here is what I gather thus far:
Lydia did not need God to open her heart because her heart was not closed to God but at the same time her heart WAS DEF closed to the gospel (which is the good news of God’s salvation).
If I am right then you have not satisfied the reformed question:
If before her heart was opened WOULD SHE HAVE RECEIVED THE GOSPEL?
If you say yes then you will have to explain how her heart was opened to the gospel BEFORE God opened her heart to the gospel.
If you say NO, then you have to explain that PRIOR to God’s openeing her heart to the gospel she was completely free to choose the gospel.
I find free will Arminianism to have inadequate answers thus far and I really do want you to address the issues.
Aug
It is the internet, that is why my identity is open to all to see, if I wanted to lie I could make up pseudo-names on the internet and cause drama where none needs to be. I can hide the identities of the others, so their privacy remains; however, I can speak plainly and boldly about the experience because it is mine to share.
See, the difference between BA (and those like him) and us (you, others and myself who openly give our identities) is that we have nothing to hide; our testimony is for others to see so that they may see what has been done has been done through God. If people fear their privacy being compromised that is understandable. I notice that there is humility and then there is false humility, like you, I find expressing the facts that these things happened does not elevate you in any ways and you are careful not sharing it without cause; but it does silence those who ask stupid questions. God always gets the glory.
John 3:9-21
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
Really, the verdict of God remains true.
Please excuse my levity here - I can’t help it - Jason I know you well enough to realise what your reluctant testimony earlier cost you in inner struggle to tell.
BUT
It’s just like watching Gandalf and Saruman having their wizard’s duel 
(obviously Jason is Gandalf and BA is Saruman here). I just hope you don’t get hoisted up onto the pinnacle of Orthanc. When do the coloured thunderbolts start zapping out of your fingertips?
AND
Almost as funny is watching Auggy desperately trying to keep his posts on topic when the whole thread has gone into mystical meltdown 
There was a topic? BA can’t keep consistent on his beliefs in the first place, I don’t even know if this topic is still his platform belief, or that next he will be telling us we don’t have free-will. He is just inconsistent like that.
Wait, I have the extended edition of FotR, and I don’t recall colored thunderbolts zapping out of Gandalf’s fingertips there! (Might’ve made a difference if he had… 
)
On the other hand, that would be one of the scenes that we’re supposed to be smoking pipe-weed while we watch it, isn’t it…? I wonder if brownies would give the same… um… special effects.
More seriously (and thanks for the followup Craig, I appreciate it):
I don’t know how Seagirl is currently doing now, but I prayed for her last night, that she is finding the One Who loves her most and gives His life for her; instead of settling for less, with the master that she had.
I also prayed for him – that he would consider the Self-Existent, Who loves him truly to keep him in existence; and to stop being a prodigal son, before he is brought to whole-ruination. Sooner than later is better. (But still, if he insists, he will be brought to the uttermost end where he will not exist as either slave or free–if that is what it takes for Mercy to be of any value to him.)
Whether her master heard me or not, or did something better than what he’s been doing–God knows. I don’t. Still, not many people think to pray for spirits like him. So, hey, I go where I’m needed.
(I prayed for the sake of the families Seagirl damaged, too, however much truth there was in that.)
And, if it happens that what was represented wasn’t the truth, in this or that degree: then God can direct my prayers to where He sees that they will be better put to use. I have no complaints; may He use Me as He sees best, and as He will.
Jeff, LOL! Even I had to laugh at that. I am trying despretley. It’s the difference between Jedi and Sith.
(Also, yay I’m glad to hear she’s doing better. )
Born Again,
I’m awaiting your response.
Jason (and to the same extent Craig),
I don’t not see a lack of humility in sharing your stories. If anything I give glory to God that these things have happened and that God was able to use you to reach out to others. What wonderful testimonies! I consider it a shame if you DON"T share them, for how is God going to get the glory if you don’t testify of these things. (And yes I know that Jesus told His disicples not to boast about the healings and casting out of demons, but rather that their names are written down in heaven, but as long as the glory is God’s, He is exalted. Praise the Lord!) I get encouraged by hearing stories like this, though I do exercise a measure of caution because some are made up. But I don’t sense that with either of you. I believe you because I’ve gotten to know you through the other things you’ve said here in the forum. There is truth and honesty in your words. There is a kindred spirit that comes through that I can’t explain exactly, and know you are true brothers in the Lord (I think you get what I mean).
I know that you take these testimonies personally and understand how you might be reluctant to share. But I think they were meant to be shared. God caused these things to happen and wouldn’t it be selfish of you if you didn’t make His Presence known? Maybe it won’t make the unbelievers believe, but it sure encourages my heart, for I can identify through my own experiences the magnitude of the greatness of God that He is there.
Let me share one recently of my own:
My wife, who is from the Phillipines, received a phone call a couple of months ago from her nephew and his wife that their three-month old baby was in ICU in critical condition with a hole in her heart and it’s not looking good. Now many times when her family calls from the Philippines, as a relatively poor country, it usually involves asking for financial help, which when we can afford to help we do. However, her nephew didn’t ask for money at all, but only that my wife pray for the baby. You see, my wife’s family looks up to her because of her faith in Christ and has seen answered prayer because of that faith. So my wife and I pray for the baby’s health. But then my wife inquires about her nephew’s salvation and we learn that he isn’t saved, though he has heard the message. My wife encourages him and leads him to Christ over the phone, to which he experiences the joy of salvation and becomes so excited that he runs to fetch his wife so that my wife can lead her to Christ as well, which she excitedly does. My wife encourages them to find a church where they can learn the Word of God and grow. And we end up sending them a substantial amount of money to help with the hospital care of the baby, even though he didn’t ask for it.
After she hangs up, we both have a heavy heart for the baby, because we sense that this newly saved couple, while joyously saved, could become quickly discouraged if something happened to that baby. So we begin to fervently pray for this baby to be raised up and healed, like we never prayed before. I meant we wept for tears pleading for God to help this couple see His Glory in this situation.
Three days later, her nephew calls up and informs us that the doctors can no longer find the hole in the baby’s heart. It healed up on it’s own. Praise God for answered prayer! The baby is doing fine and the couple are active members of a local church. Mine eyes have seen the Glory of the coming of the Lord!
Sorry if I went off topic, but in light of what’s been shared, I couldn’t help it.