The Evangelical Universalist Forum

How Do You Explain the Trinity?

Cindy, why did you have to go and do that, why oh why :laughing: oh why??

Maybe she could have said it another way - like this :exclamation: :laughing:

(In a high whiny voice): But she’s wrong, Randy…I don’t know what to do. Take a pill??? :laughing:

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: You guys are a riot. :wink:

Let’s all get together and sing a song - to put aside our differences :exclamation: :smiley:

Well, I’ll tell you—not all Trinitarians take such a charitable view as yours. Many think God does not love us non-Trinitarians, and is going to send us all to hell forever. I, personally, have heard Trinitarians state that Modalists or “Oneness” people, because of their belief about God, are not true Christians.

On the other hand, I had a Oneness friend, who was a pastor in a United Pentecostal Church. He told me that some in that circle of fellowship believe that Trinitarians are not true Christians. However, my friend did not hold to that idea.

That’s one of the things I value about this message board: We don’t have to worry about the nonsense of someone playing the hell card: “Oh, yeah? Well, you’re going to hell for disagreeing with me!”

That seems to happen a lot though, doesn’t it? It appears to me that it’s less now than it was. For example, a Wesleyan pastor told me (with a twinkle in his eye) that it was possible non-Wesleyan’s may actually go to heaven. He was being ironic, of course. In his view the idea that members of other denominations would not “make it” was silly. I have no idea what his view would have been concerning Christian Universalism. That said, there are a “hell” of a lot of Christians who seem to think that one’s beliefs concerning the doctrine of Hellfire could very easily condemn one to eternal hellfire, if those beliefs were incorrect. I see this as a form of Gnosticism. The people who say these things would vehemently deny that correct doctrine is what gets us “into heaven.” Still, that is what they seem to believe. There’s a disconnect there somewhere. They genuinely can’t seem to see it.

I’m very glad that God is not that petty, or none of us would “make it.” None of us have perfect doctrine, but logically speaking, that’s exactly what some people seem to require, though they probably don’t realize it.

So physicists postulated that since light travels through space, then space must be filled with a substance, since waves require a medium through which to travel. They called this theoretical substance “phlogiston”. However, the Michelson-Morley experiment proved that phlogiston does not exist.

Isn’t it called “black matter” (as opposed to black lives matter) or is that old school?

No.

Though the existence of black matter is hypothetical as well, it is presumed to exist because of detected gravitational pull which cannot be visually explained.

Ether was presumed to exist to explain how light (assumed to be a wave) could travel through space. Waves need a medium through which to travel, and thus it was thought that space was not empty, but filled with ether.

The only thing that I care to want to know or understand is that there is only one true God. To me, His name is Jesus, and I am His one and only child uniquely and specially made by Him. There is nobody else in the world exactly like me, yet I am also one among the many other children of God. I strive daily to live up to the example He has set for us. If anyone else wants to believe differently, be my guest and good luck with that. :slight_smile:

The problem I have with the Trinity theory is that it leaves man out of the equation. No, we are not God, but we are very much a part of Him and His creation. I think that this is what God was telling us; that He gave each of us a part of His Spirit and mind when He made us. I suppose I could be Trinitarian if the Trinity was redefined as such:
1)God Jesus ( The Father’s Spirit in the flesh)
2)Myself ( a child of God, having the same spirit as my Father who created me, whom I love and follow)
3) All other children of God ( those who love and follow the same spirit)
Separate yet joined together as one in heart and mind

As 1 Corinthians 12:13 states “For by ONE spirit are we all baptized into one body.”
Also Ephesians 4:6 says, ONE God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all and in you all."

It is my opinion that by excluding man,the doctrine of the Trinity, as it is understood today, obscures the full truth as to man’s true position in the world as well as our true relationship to our God. The founding fathers of America came to recognize this very truth and thus Thomas Jefferson wrote it in the Declaration of Independence. All men are created equal and have been endowed by our Creator with the gifts of His Spirit, which includes all having the power to rule under God. Once we come to realize this biblical principle, it destroys the principalities and the powers of the world, those who claim to be "chosen by God, all the kings and queens of “royal blood”, the ruling classes, the monarchies, the dictatorships, the governments of man who have established themselves above all the rest.

Well . . . that’s not exactly what Jefferson said–or at least, not what made it into the Declaration of Independence. OTOH, I’m not sure how Trinitarianism excludes anything you’ve said.

Cindy, you’re right.The Declaration does state it a little differently. I paraphrased, hence no quotation marks. :wink:
It is the bible that teaches we are all connected to God in spirit. He is in us, we are in Him, and together we are one .However the doctrine of the Trinity says nothing of the like. It says that God is three “persons” in one. This trilogy only consists of God the Father, God the Son(Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit. This leaves the questions: who are we, and what is our relationship to God?

I guess people have all kinds of ways of looking at the Trinity, LLC. Myself, I see this as a plural singular (or is that the other way round?) noun. Such as “community” or “family.” God is community, and God is One. We are one with Christ, thus we partake of the divine nature. We are many persons, but we are one individual; the One New Man, with Christ as our head. The bride of Christ, the sons of the Father, the temple of the Spirit. I don’t see us as being left in the dust at all. I don’t think we will become gods, though if we were to see ourselves 10K years from now (if such a thing as years is still coherent in our “future” state) we might think we were looking at gods. We are in the inner circle. God has invited us in, and we have said “Yes!” It’s the ultimate “in group,” and no one is out. I love it!

Cindy, I agree. We are not left in the dust. As it says in Genesis 2:7,“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.” God created man in His own image, therefore we have the divine nature of our Maker. We love. We forgive. We create. We have compassion. We have minds to think for ourselves, etc., etc… When we live by the truths of God’s Spirit that can be found in our hearts and minds, we are the sons of God. The bible also teaches that man, being made in God’s image, was also given rule over the earth. As Psalms 82:6 says, "I said “You are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High.” Again Jesus says in John 10:34 "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, “You are gods?”
I don’t think that the doctrine of the Trinity reflect these biblical truths.

True… but only because the Trinity doctrine is not consistent.

IF “I and the Father are one” MEANS “Trinity” as is often claimed (as opposed to being ONE IN PURPOSE) THEN surely Jn 17:21 equates believers as being on par with God, i.e., divine.

I believe that humans are physical beings as well as spiritual beings. Unless we created ourselves, the essence, spirit, substance, heart and mind, (whatever we choose to call it), of which we are made, comes from our Creator. The “Trinity”, however, states that there are only three spiritual beings made of the same “substance”- the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit. This makes man separate from God. One has to wonder why that is.?? As was once believed, God was something totally separate and other, while man was basically just a part of the animal kingdom. Of course, God was just too complex for the common man to understand. It took those with “special knowledge and connections” to understand and thus give directions to the simple-minded people. In my opinion, the Trinity is a stumbling block. I believe as Moses says in Deuteronomy 30:11 and 30:14, “For this commandment which I command you today, it is not too mysterious for you , nor is it far off.” “But the word is very near you , in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.”

That is indeed an argument put forward BUT Scripture doesn’t appear to say this… IF it did it would be case closed by the texts stating such, however they don’t.

THAT indeed was the position religianity successfully pushed upon the dull masses, but again totally false.

In my opinion, only to the degree we decide not to step around it.