The Evangelical Universalist Forum

How does the LOF Compare with our God?

Theology
#1

The Lake Of Fire

  1. We will consider all passages of Scripture speaking of the Lake.

  2. What is the Lake of Fire?

  3. What is not the Lake of Fire.

  4. What is the defining ingredient of the Lake.

  5. Compare our God the Consuming Fire & the Lake of Fire.

Are our broadest hopes broad enough? Shall there be a nook or abyss, in all the universe of God, finally unlightened by the Cross? Shall there be a sin, or sorrow, or pain unhealed? Is the very universe, is creation in all its extent, a field wide enough for the Son of God?

#2

1. The passages of Scripture addressing the Lake=

Rev. 2.11

Rev. 19.20

Rev. 20.8

Rev. 20.10

Rev. 20.14

Rev. 20.15

#3

In contemplating the Lake we shall consider #3 first.

What the Lake is NOT=

Hell or death.

The Scripture declares “death and hell” terminated in the Lake.

Please see Rev. 20:14

“And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire…">>>>

Yes, there is more>>>>>

"Which IS the second death."

#4

Are we listening? As Judge Judy would say>>>

“Put on your listening ears.”

The Lake IS NOT hell!

All aspects of hell end in the Lake>>>>> ALL!

#5

Which brings us to #2. What is the Lake of Fire?

According to the Revelation, the ONLY book of Scripture speaking of the Lake, the Lake of Fire IS the 2nd Death.

#6

Which brings us to Rev. 20:15. “Whoever is not found in the Book of life” will experience the 2nd death.

Alert!

But there is more. Let us now turn to Rev. 21:8 which says>>>

“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

#7

Are we listening? Is our listening ears on?

  1. The fearful.

  2. The unbelieving.

  3. ALL liars

  4. Whoremongers & sorcerers, & idolaters.

"Shall have their part"

#8

The Book of Life is where one must be registered!

The question we must now consider is>>>

Are all believers overcomers?

We will now turn to Rev.2:11 which states >>>

“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.”

I repeat: are all believers overcomers?

#9

Dear fellow members of the Tree of Life: The ONLY members who will not “be hurt” by the Lake of all lakes are the overcomer of the Living One. They and they ALONE are not “hurt” by the Lake. Our question to now consider is why?

Why is ONLY the overcomer not hurt?

Are our broadest hopes broad enough? Shall there be a nook or abyss, in

#10

Yes, friends, we will be considering>>>

  1. What the Lake is.

  2. The primary ingredient of the Lake in English & koine.

3.How the Lake compares with our God the consuming Fire.

BUT NOT TODAY

That is coming in coming posts.

#11

While be take a brief interlude in this theme, a “liberal” moderator has just posted the following on another site in reference to the Lake of Fire>>>

"This an important subject, researching whether people burn in hell and what all of that stuff means. Remember also passages about the furnace of affliction, purification. Remember the opening of Isaiah in which he has a vision where his lips are purified with hot coals from the altar. Remember, too, the flaming sword of the guardian of Eden and the way to the tree of life. The serpents in the wilderness had a fiery bite. The fat of the sacrifice must be burned…etc.

The burning bush in the wild has a spreading fire. The English says consuming, yet the bush isn’t burned. It is probably a spreading fire. That is only a guess not a scholarly thing, but a consuming fire would destroy the bush would it not? A spreading fire would not, and it would explain why Moses has to take off his sandals. His feet probably touch that fire, and there is probably some kind of purification going on there. I don’t know why it would start at his feet, but maybe it does and then goes all over him?"

#12

The 2nd Death

“Orthodox theology holds the second death to be a state of endless torment in which the sufferers are held forever in conscious being by a continuous act of Divine preservation, with the soul object of a punishment without end. This however would in no sense be death. The second death does not perpetuate the hopeless condition of the sinner to all eternity.

What the Holy Spirit means by ‘fire and brimstone’ is ‘divine purification,’ or a judgment fire which consumes all that is antagonistic to divine law and love.

Before the Great White Throne, that vast throng, their naked spirits conscious now of the blazing holiness of God, will be subjected to the process of the second death. What those processes are, their intensity and their duration, we are not told. They will suffice, however, not in themselves to perfect, but to bring those who suffer them to that agreement with the judgment upon sin which they effect, and through the cross finally to reconcile them to God (Col. 1:20), in a subjection where He will be ‘All in all.’ When that acquiescence in judgment upon sin is reached, and applied in soul and spirit, then will be possible the final victory over death. Hence it is written that when this subjection is reached, then and only then, ‘the last enemy, death, shall be destroyed.’ ” -A. E. Saxby

The Lake Of Fire

Brimstone= theion

Root of theion= Theos

Theion= the breath of Jehovah/ Theos

The Lake of Divine Fire

The final question is up to each of us to answer. Is our God who IS consuming Fire the Lake of Theos?

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#13

Deut. 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

Deut. 9:3 Understand therefore this day, that the LORD thy God is he which goeth over before thee; as a consuming fire he shall destroy them, and he shall bring them down before thy face: so shalt thou drive them out, and destroy them quickly, as the LORD hath said unto thee.

It is not the wicked that will be dwelling in the devouring fire:

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

Isa 33:15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil.

Like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego; We will be able to stand in the presence of a Holy God and not be destroyed:

Dan 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

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#14

I hope i’m wrong but I doubt the typical believer in Christ is necessarily an overcomer and therefore he will partake also in the LOF. After all, those in the LOF will be liars, cowardly and a few other rather low level sins so that includes almost everyone, but IMO Rev 22.17 invites everyone in the LOF to join the KOG at some point. How the purification process may work we are not told but we have to trust God because there is nothing else.

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#15

Dear Steve: We must note that the overcomer which the masses of churchianity have never considered for a nano second, are not “hurt” by the Lake. I believe the reason is that they have been hurt over and over again by His mighty dealings in their triune beings leaving nothing to hurt further. Let us continue to go out to Him!

#16

Amen, David! I love your quotes and spiritual insights in this forum.

I don’t intend to be contentious, but I wonder why you describe us as being “triune”. I realise that some verses in the Scriptures talk about body, soul and spirit. However, I adopt what I think to be the majority position that we are bi-partite beings, comprising our material body and our spirit and that our soul depicts who we really are. Gen. 2:7 “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (our spirit), and man became a living soul (the combination of body and spirit).”

#17

My friend: Thank you for such kind words. My precious wife declares I must get a life. The fact is He is our life and I like Him very much. Posting of His incredible love and grace is such a joy!

I behold man as a spirit being clothed in flesh. However, there is a close link associated with spirit and soul which only the word of the Lord can separate. This is why in Theology 101 there are di and tri. Spirit/ soul & spirit & soul & body.

Most of humanity dwells in the carnal flesh realm and in the soulical realm even after the Fathers initial operation in their life. I cannot express this adequately, but the call of the Spirit is for a new excursion into the working of separation and “hurt” that exceeds ordinary. May the Father most glorious satisfy Himself with us!

#18

IMO body soul and spirit is quite accurate. Surely we can all understand that there is a great ditinction between body and mind (ie soul). Atheists might say that is where it ends but we Christians (and others) believe that there is a part of us which is not limited to mind and goes beyond mind ie ‘spirit’. Those who suffer dementia may have lost their minds (to a large or small degree) but their spirit is intact.

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#19

Our God is a consuming fire. He will consume every trace of evil that remains in any person.

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#20