I am wondering about this. Is there ever a time when any of us can say- i have reached the plateau!!! I need no more repenting i am 100% sin free!!! ??? How many of us on here can honestly say we never commit certaiun sins over and over??? That we do not sin in mind, heart and will, even willfully?? Can there be sins we commit that we really are not conscious of in some respects?? I ask this to deal also with the notion God does not forgive us unless we repent. Do we not all have times when we strugle with our faith, with living obediently,with trusting God implicitly?? I think God is always with us, even in our darkest hours, and His kindness will lead to repentance. Life is so fragile. At any second it can end for multiple causes and reasons. I think God is not wanting to withold Himself if we die when we may be in a dark time of struggling to believe. What do you all think??
Keep in mind that I am a member of the Eastern Orthodox Church.
I would be wary–to say the least–of anyone who said he no longer needed to repent. We call that prelest: spiritual delusion.
I am certain that we all commit sins without even realizing it. Right before we take communion, we pray: “Have mercy upon me and forgive my transgressions both voluntary and involuntary, of word and of deed, committed in knowledge or in ignorance.”
I am also certain that we are all far, far more sinful that we suspect. We are probably often at our worst when we think we are at our best.
One of the Desert Fathers lay dying in his bed, and his fellow monks gathered around. They noticed that he was praying fervently. They asked him the content of his prayers. He replied, “I am asking for one more hour of earthly life in which to repent.” The monks expressed much surprise, for this Desert Father had lived a long life of humility and repentance. He responded, “Indeed, I don’t think I’ve ever truly repented.”
In short, our repentance is almost always a half-hearted thing. Our repentance isn’t a true turning away from sin. Instead, it is a begging of God’s indulgence for committing sin, and a tacit plea for further indulgence when we commit the same sin in the future. What a horrible thought: That even in the midst of a prayer of repentance, we often have it settled deep within ourselves that we will continue to commit this sin, and that we’ll just say another prayer in the future to cover it over.
All that said, we must beware of dwelling upon past sins of which we have repented. If I stole my friend’s watch, then repented and returned the watch to him, it’s over. Done. Finished. Any bad feelings we have for that sin are a waste of energy. As George MacDonald said, we are not condemned for any sin which we have committed. We are condemned for the sins from which we will not turn away.
One more point: Repentance does not equal “having bad/guilty feelings”. While such feelings often accompany repentance, they are not necessary to it. Repentance is nothing more and nothing less than turning away from a sin and ceasing to commit it.
Hi Robert,
I agree with Geoffrey’s reply. I daily repent for the wrong thoughts and actions I do. I know I will have this daily struggle whilst in this ‘body of death’ but I can also sense that God is changing me to be like His Son, even if it seems a very slow process. I constantly marvel at how UNLIMITED God’s forgiveness is and how He is working to bring us to want to repent. 
Geoffrey and Catherine- Thank you both very much!!! I agree Geoffrey that pride often blinds us to our true sinfulness. Once we take inventory and realize just how sinful we are, grace becomes truly amazing!!! I think the struggle is when we have certain sins that, for whatever reason, we do not want to let go of and God in His love does what he knows we need so we will no longer want those sins. Somewhere i read that letting go of sin is very painful and one reason we hang onto some. They serve a purpose and we have a blindspot to letting them go.
Which sins do you think are the toughest to surrender?? Not asking to say your own lol just any you think commonly would be hard to let go by anyone. I think sexual ones, because of the intimacy and pleasure involved, make them very hard to give up. Drinking and drugs as well because they are painkillers for us. Hope to hear more from all of you
Amen to that Robert. We all have our own personal struggles and I do believe God is always working to bring us to the point where we can ask Him to help us not sin. Some of us are quicker learners than others but God’s patience and love never end and so God will never give up on drawing all people to him. 
I believe forgiveness to be a response to repentance. Oh, you can let go of your ill feelings toward someone. You might not require him to make restitution for his wrongdoing. But that is not what forgiveness is. In its very essence, forgiveness is a response to repentance. Jesus said:
Watch yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him, and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.” (Luke 17:3,4)
I think that with these words, Jesus teaches that forgiveness is conditional upon repentance. “IF he repents, forgive him.” To repent is to have a change of heart and mind concerning your actions. For example, suppose Joe has stolen money from you, but he doesn’t repent of it. Even when you confront him, he doesn’t return the money. You can let go of your anger toward him. You can let him off the hook—tell him he doesn’t have to repay the money. But that’s not forgiveness. However, if he comes to you and it is clear from his demeanor that he regrets what he has done, and proves it by returning the money, you can forgive him. If you truly forgive him, then you can relate to him again, and as far as your relationship with him goes, it is just as if he had never stolen from you. Again, you have full fellowship with him.
He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. (Philippians 1:6)
Salvation from sin is a process. The day will come when that process will be complete. “Perfection” means “completion”. If perfection were not possible, Jesus would never have said, “You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”(Matthew 5:48). Jesus doesn’t require of us the impossible.
As long as we stay on the difficult, narrow path that leads to life, God will not hold our sins against us. But if we choose to leave that path and pursue our own course in life, we are on the easy, broad way that leads to destruction.
Hi Paidion- I thought perfect in the verse you cited means mature I agree with you, God never demands of us the impossible. To be able to be free from any and all sin in THIS life i believe IS impossible!!! I think God desirews us to mature as much as we can which involves dying daily to our fleshly ways, like Catherine said. I really wonder though if he will not forgive us for reoccuring sins or sins we can’t seem to let go of?? In looking around at people i have seen many who struggle with the same sins throughout life, seeking to surrender themselves to God and freedom from them but never able to make the full release. I think God is a loving Father constantly seeking to help them as opposed to kicking trhem to the curb so to speak because they are still holding on to certain sins.
It is possible that we construe repentance as nothing more than feeling bad for knowing what we should not do, even though we still want to do it. Take drugs for example. Some people think they have magical powers, but the truth is, drugs only have the power we give them. If we see drugs as an escape, then an escape it is. A self-fulfilling prophecy, so to speak. There have been reports of soldiers taking cocaine during occupation only to come back to the states and never take it again of their own volition. Same with some alcoholics who decide that ‘enough is enough’ and never struggled with another drink. Often times these don’t shed tears, they just analyzed their life and made a decision. But the ones who can’t seem to stay consistently clean, the ones who can’t just say no to the bottle, they may think they are repenting, but there is still a very strong will that doesn’t want to change. So, in many ways, I think our suffering (perhaps God’s intended design) is the suffering of not wanting to let our sin go, because if we truly let it go, we would be free. Perhaps the remorse isn’t about the sin, but about the fact that we want to sin even though we know it is wrong. Perhaps it is that we know the disease is in us.
Of course, then there are those who pretend they don’t sin and call their sins a mistake, mishap, temporary weakness, etc… These people are cunning in their deceitfulness…
Then there are those that say “It is all under the blood brother!” and they don’t seem to care at all.
I have been in ALL three of these camps at some point in my life. I know what it was like to pretend my sin didn’t matter and that it was covered under the blood. I knew what it was like to pretend my sin wasn’t willful or make some excuse for it. I know what it is like to just be honest and I say I screw up and admit that I love pleasure from certain types of sin that I wish I didn’t and abstain with the best of my ability, praying to God that he will one day free me from these strong temptations and if not free me by lightening the burden, he gives me a stronger back to endure it. Knowing how the universe works: Strength through adversity… I must say that asking God to strengthen my back rather than lightening my load seems the most logical prayer. It is also how psychology defeats OCD. People with OCD tend to have it because they run and look for ways to eliminate their anxiety and this doesn’t work, because the absence of it anxiety weakens your resolve to handle it. Eventually the person becomes an insane, useless person because they are scared of facing their fears. Once the person faces their fears, the anxiety diminishes and they face more and more fears until this level of anxiety becomes normal. Observe how our bodies react… When we stop working them, we get sick and die. Cells die off when they are not pushed. When astronauts go into space, the lack of gravity causes bone density to deteriorate at over 1% per month! We literally fall apart without an opposing force. I would challenge someone to show me where taking the easy way out strengthens anything in life. No, I believe it utterly true - “Strength through adversity” and I believe that is why God challenges us with ‘Fiery Trials’ - It is for our own good! Painful? Yes! But for our good! It reminds me of a hymn “It will be worth it all, when we see Jesus” Yes, it will be worth it all in the end!
What is OCD? Obsessive Clinton Disorder?
Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.
Hi Gabe- very well stated and laid out there. The phrase * no pain no gain* comes to mind as well. I think Paul uses athletes as examples as well because he knows to excel at them you need to have a resistance which you push against. This makes great sense in how God allows different trials. My point I was making is not to just excuse sin and our desire for it in many ways, but not to have an all or nothing approach either. We will seek to overcome sin and be like Christ until we die. If anyone gets an idea that they should be fully free from sin, that preachers and teachers and christians they look up to teach this, and they see they are not up to par, it can leave them without hope and ultimately discouraged. Love and grace always accompany the effort to overcome and resist sin.
Do you guys/gals recognize a difference between sin , that we must be delivered from, and trials which are meant to toughen and mature us, where we must take a a proactive effort? Is that a legitimate difference in your opinion(s)?
I sometimes hear folks saying that ‘if you really wanted to quit sinning, you could’. Cold comfort for many. There are things we must be saved from - by an outside Power - and the ‘wanting to’ is one of those things. Don’t get me wrong - we will always have to struggle against sin in the world, and in ourselves - but we’d be lost unless God does something spiritually within us. IMO.
This is really a good point…
Sometimes we get caught up in the many things others look as sin… And thus they perceive sin in our life.
Dave said " I sometimes hear folks saying that 'if you really wanted to quit sinning, you could."
Ya know… that is so easy to say.
But Paul said that we ALL sin and fall short.
The effect of the ecclesia is to promote healthy and holy living in this life, here on the earth , the terra firma and to understand that Christ is in us and we are in Him.
I wonder if there is a math equation to compute it? 
Hey DaveB- I am with MM, your point is well-made. I see a difference between sins and trials definitely. My point i have been trying to make is that yes we need to repent regularly from our sins, but it is an ongoing process until we die. I think it is a legalistic mindset to insist certain sins should never ever be committed by anyone in their life once they are in Christ Paul is speaking in PRESENT TENSE when he refers to his being torn over being stuck in the body of death and realizing only Jesus can provide the means to overcome. Sin is something adversarial to God. Trials are given by God to strengthen and mature us in our faith. What do you think of the verse where it says love covers over a multitude of sins???
Repentance is changing one’s mind and turning around and going in the way one ought to go. We should always be repenting. As soon as we know we’ve strayed off the WAY, we need to repent by turning back onto the way. I don’t think it’s a matter of bemoaning and groaning. It’s a matter of getting back into the right path–following Jesus. Sure, sorrow is the natural reaction when we realize we’ve let down the one who gave His life for us. That said, if we spend all our time in mourning over our past sins (which He forgave before we even committed them), I think that shows a lack of faith in His infinite grace and the power of His redemption. Either that, or a large dose of legalism and self-condemnation of the one (oneself) whom Christ has justified.
To reiterated what I said before, I think grieving over sin might not be grieving over sin, but grieving over the fact that we still want to do that sin but know it is wrong and find ourselves between a rock and a hard place. I want to follow Jesus, but I also want to commit this sin. Since your will has not yet aligned to His will, then you have tension. So when you do sin and disobey, it is no wonder you are depressed. You did what you knew was wrong. But when your will aligns with God’s and you no longer want to do that sin, you won’t do that sin. This might sound utterly simplistic and although I believe it is, I don’t think one can merely ‘will’ themselves into this type of repentance. It is a process that takes a long time, I believe. I also believe that God is the agent working on it. But, to say someone should not feel bad because they have done wrong (not saying Cindy said this). I wonder if that isn’t poison to our souls?
This is actually a really difficult point to make. But let us examine the following scenario.
Person “A” believes that it is wrong to curse. Person “A” feels that he just can’t help himself. God gave him such a temper and by golly he just can’t seem to stop cursing. He reduces his cursing, but can’t seem to eliminate. He slips up a few times a day. He feels bad when he does this. Should he feel bad? I would argue this person should feel bad, because they are not ready to leave the sin. Why, you say, he has reduced the amount of times he sins? Yes, he has, but there is still an inner believe inside of him that doesn’t believe he will overcome this sin.
Person “B” believes that it is wrong to curse. Person “B” decides he is going to stop this behavior. Personal “B” quits cursing. Now he is truly forgiven, but because the sin has stopped perse, though it has, but because he changed his heart towards it. He knew it was wrong, didn’t believe he was overcome by it and acted on what was right. Is it possible he could curse at some point in the future? Yes, but it isn’t a struggle and thus, he has repented towards God.
See, the difference between someone still living in their sin and not, would be the fact that when temptation comes, the person who has moved past their sin will almost always have victory over it and not succumb to that temptation. That, is repentance - When we cease to do the things we know are wrong.
Now, is it as simple as stopping? Yes, it is. But it is easy? No, it isn’t. Can Man by his own will do this? No. God must do a special work and often, I believe we must face many failures before our selfish will decides to obey the master. As God reveals the need to change, we must submit and strive. We must ask him “change our will to do his will” and we must strive and pray until that takes place.
One thing is clear, we need to leave our sin behind. There is no room for an ‘allowance’ of sin and no room for ‘good enough’. We must eliminate sin. It is a disease. Normally when someone starts saying this, people gang up and say “So you are saying you have overcome?” No, I have not overcome. But I am not going to lower the standard for what I believe is right just because I have not yet arrived. It is so nonsensical to believe that we should continue to sin. Rebellion must be rooted out of each of us.
Gabe- very good analogy of the 2 people repenting over cursing. I do want to ask you more about what you say at the end though. You said we must strive to cease sinning, yet we in ourselves are powerless to do so, it must be a work of the Holy Spirit over time which we pray for and long for. Then you say we must root out the rebellion and stop sinning. How does this happen though if in our own efforts we simply cannot?? Are we to feel bad all the time anytime we commit sin?? I think Paul would have been feeling very bad all the time in that case based onwhat he says in Romans. In 1 John it says if we claim to be without sin we are liars. I would say we are to seek an attitude of death to sin and a desire to resist and overcome, but done by trusting in Jesus who DID overcome all sin and trusting the Holy Spirit will carry out the process of freeing us from sin all the time. The process will take as long as it takes, but we can relax into His love as opposed to beating ourselves up any and everytime we sin. Hope that shows a lil tweaking of what i saw you saying. 
There is a mourning over sin that is appropriate and even helpful, and there is a mourning over sin that is excessive and stagnating and unhelpful in the extreme. We’ve all sinned, and some of us have sinned in ways that seem to us, at least, to be extremely bad. In most cases we would forgive another the past faults we may find utterly unforgivable in ourselves. I’m not talking about ongoing sins. I’m talking about sins past and gone–sins that we are perhaps in no danger of repeating. Yet there is a whole school of Christians who feel we should expend a great deal of time and effort mourning over those sins, castigating ourselves, and basically immobilizing ourselves with remorse.
If you’re in a situation of ongoing temptation and yielding to that temptation, then it’s most likely productive to feel the pain when you do something that hurts another person. Let’s say stealing. You know it’s wrong to steal, yet you can’t seem to help yourself. You steal from your employer by playing video games while you’re at work, or maybe cheating just a little on your time card, or you don’t report all your tips and you’re stealing from the IRS (a situation for which I might perhaps drum up some sympathy, but still . . .) You believe with all your heart that what you’re doing is wrong, but time and time again you find yourself doing it. As Paul says, “Oh wretched man that I am, who shall deliver me from this body of death?” If you read the whole chapter, you’ll see that Paul says, “If I do that which I hate, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.” Jesus came to save us from our SINS. That is the salvation, because it is SIN (and not God’s wrath), that leads to death.
But I’m getting off track here. Yes, you ought to resist the sins of the flesh. It might not be possible to succeed on your own, but I think that when we “flee youthful lusts” and “resist the adversary” and struggle to “love our neighbor as ourselves,” God does bless that and with time, enable us to gain, through the sacrifice of Christ, victory over those chains that bind us. Grief over ongoing sins gives us the motivation to seek to be free.
That said, in most cases there is imo NOTHING productive about casting ourselves into the outer darkness mourning over past sins (no matter how evil they may be) that God has already forgiven and that we are no longer committing. I know that’s not what you’re saying, but it IS what I was talking about. People immobilize themselves by doing that. They may not be committing X any more, but they’re not doing anything good either. They’re just languishing in their guilt, torturing themselves needlessly, and advancing neither their own spiritual lives nor the kingdom. Sadly, some of them think they’re doing God’s will by all this moroseness. I don’t think they are. Jesus’ blood was enough. Forgiven is forgiven–move on.
Cindy- You go with your bad self girl!!! I love what you shared and it is so true about what people actually experience i think in dealing with sin. My main point is about reocurring sins like you mentioned. Sins like explosive anger outbursts, using the tongue to hurt people, witholding ourself ferom people or life in ways that hurt. The kind of sins which really are present in everyone to some degree on a constant basis but don’t get called out on though. I wonder why, as you point out, it can be so hard for people to just move on accepting Jesus finished work on the Cross?? I THINK GRACE ALL TOO OFTEN IS UNDERSTOOD INTELLECTUALLY BUT very very HARD TO FULLY DEEPLY GRASP DEEP IN OUR HEART OF OUR HEARTS. Sorry didn’t see i had hit caps key while typing 
I think theology ever since Augustine has really contributed to this. We are taught we all have original sin and even babies are sinners worthy of hell. This is extreme but it is all too prevalent. The whole idea of hell makes God and Jesus sociopathic schizos in my view because love is said to never fail yet the threat of hell strongly suggests otherwise and gets deep in our souls, even unconsciously making grace so hard to really truly trust.