As you all know, I love the debates about hell and justice and mercy and punishment and redemption and, of course, salvation.
But isn’t it reasonable to ask this simple question: What was Jesus’ mission (intention) on coming to this earth, and how successful was He?
Well, Luke 19:10 says “For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
Who would contest that as the mission of Jesus??
So isn’t this a reasonable question to ask? – How successful was Jesus at this mission?
Why not start with something like John 17:2-4 for Jesus’ own assessment of His success:
Do you see any hint of equivocation here? – or hint that Jesus had any doubt of His success? Neither do I… Further, I can think of no text or evidence that God, or Jesus, consider the mission of Christ to be anything but a complete success. One might say even a Total Victory.
Yes, that is the bottom line isn’t it. It trumps all doubt and question and relegates all other arguments to the bottom of the pile. Either He was successful as Savior or He wasn’t. All doubts should be filtered through this assertion made by Jesus Himself!
I have a question in relation to the John 17 passage where Jesus says He is “not praying for the world but for those the Father has given Him”. What would be the reason for saying He is not praying for the world? I have an answer that I give but not sure it encompasses all the passage is saying. I would like to hear what you think, TV. Would you say that Jesus’ prayer was for the elect since they are God’s priests to the world? Although later it does appear that He is praying for those who WILL believe through THEIR message (ie., the world by means of the elect?) Also Jesus prays for the believers to be one in order that, “the world might know that You sent Me”. And is this “knowing” equivalent to salvation?
Great question – which of course must keep in mind the previously mentioned “authority over ALL people” and that He “might give eternal life to all those you have given him” which must mean everybody over whom He has authority…
That seems to set the stage for the scope of this mission: everybody is the “target” of this mission it seems clear.
But it’s quite clear, isn’t it, that this doesn’t happen all at once? There are those who come first, and to whom a very special task has been given to share in the completion of this work! There is a passage of time… a phenomenon of “first fruits” … divisions between those who have responded and those who must undergo further refining…
In this context then it makes perfect sense for Jesus to be offering a special encouragement for those who shall be His special ambassadors in His great act of redemption.
No one in Universalism believes (so far as I know) that all are swept into the kingdom at the same time or apart from the purification the particularly resistant/rebellious seem to require.
Does it bother me that Jesus would pause to offer a word of encouragement to those who are already on board with His mission?? Of course not; it would be expected.
But wow isn’t John 17 the coolest chapter ever!!
(of course there are other places where God’s victory is also portrayed as being complete)
Thanks TV,
Yes John 17 is amazing. It has been for me a gradual overhaul of my paradigm having been steeped in Calvinism. In the past this chapter has been essentially a proof text for the exclusiveness of the atonement ie., “limited atonement”. So therefore I am “learning to see” where I once could not see! For instance I never noticed until you highlighted it, the verse that says, “authority over all people” in this passage. And that is indeed the clincher.
I do agree and have come to see that the Scriptures reveal a sequence of ages in which God intends to accomplish the restoration and this would explain why Christ seemed to be speaking of and praying for His first wave of “team members”. But of course we see that the “elected” team’s purpose is to proclaim reconciliation to the rest of the world! And I get it that we are the ones that need prayer, especially for our unity. Unity is apparrently the primary evidence for the world to know the authenticity of Christ’s message…! My greatest comfort in what looks like an impossibility is that CHRIST HIMSELF prayed for our unity so I expect we are guaranteed it will come to pass! And for me I see God’s revelation of UR as an incredibly hopeful step in that direction.
Also if Jesus fails to save that which was lost he effectively misses the mark and we all know what that is a definition of (and all agree he didn’t sin - so therefore didn’t miss any targets for which he was aiming).
Yes the elder son has a responsibility to his younger brethren; his blessing (double portion) isn’t for him to lord it over them but to bring a blessing on them as well.
Wow, very cool…I am continually awe-struck with how the Scriptures are absolutely saturated with this understanding woven into each story within the Story!
“…Lord, give Your church eyes to see!”
Absolutely, I agree with you. The naysayers will say, “but it says only those who are given him will not be lost”, so I’m glad that someone pointed out that He has been given all. (Which they still ignore, of course).
Another responsibility the elder brother had was to use his extra portion to redeem any of his brethren who lost their inheritance. The younger brethren could (if they were stupid like me) refuse the offer of redemption and remain in bondage to the new owner of their land. HOWEVER! at the end of 50 years (at most) they were to be released from bondage anyway at the Jubilee when all men returned to their inheritance.
But fortunately there are any number of texts which strongly suggest, or explicitly point to, the Victory of God, through our Christ, as being total, complete, and supremely successful.
I just picked one of the lesser used texts which certainly does, at the very least, seem favorable to the idea of complete success by Jesus of His mission…
The entire case for UR need not rest here alone.
Still, I think there are other scriptures which do say that all things have been given to Christ. Let’s see what I can find . . .
Of course here you might argue that in order to possess the nation, you needn’t possess every single individual of every nation . . .
This one seems a little bit more explicit in that it also includes all the families of all the nations, but still, an individual family member might conceivably be excluded and still keep the promise, but still what about . . .
Oh yeah! This sentence seems quite definite and inclusive. But I wanted one that specifically mentions possession . . .
Well, that’s possession – inheritance – of course we’re again back to “the nations,” but in light of “all that go down to the dust,” I think we can add the two together to say that YHWH’s inheritance is in fact every member of every nation, tribe, family, etc.
There’s another one (which I’m not finding) where God says, “All souls are Mine.” Since Jesus does all things according to the Father’s will, and all that the Father has is also the possession of Christ (whatever you consider the relationship between the Son and the Father), we may reasonably say, taking into consideration the above scriptures, that ALL has been given to Jesus. There are more, of course, but I need to go make some pottery. I’m shirking.
