How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper


Unfortunately it is easier to point out flaws, injustice and broken systems than it is to provide solid solutions. But even if I had the solution, a slam dunk one, there is nothing I can do to change it. That is the joke of the matter.



Most partisan passions run high. But my perception is that you repeatedly post lengthy arguments for why your opponent’s politicians suck, and why your side’s is worthy of highest admiration, and then ask if everyone doesn’t see that.

But if I engage by presenting how some see much of this as unfair caricaturizing or generalizing, and explain their point of view, you declare that understanding why and how others see it differently is not among your aims, and then perhaps instead of engaging, you offer 20 more paragraph one-like assertions.

This repetition leaves me feeling this thread is used as a one-sided high fiving verbose propaganda forum, or worse, a boring place for both sides to vainly shoot their rhetoric over the bows of two ships passing in the night.


I know all of that Bob. Unfortunately, we are beyond that.
After 2 years of pointing out the good Trump has done - even in my few sane moments - no one on the ‘other side’ has admitted to ONE, let alone 250, good things Trump has done. What is so hard about that?
I don’t care if Trump is beloved or not. I do care that hatred, apparently, has taken over so much of people’s thinking that they cannot look at a list of facts and agree that it is a good one.
I cannot communicate with that type of closed mentality. Period. I’m wasting my breath.
I did not start out a Trump fan - nor did I take a hard line - I said ‘Let’s see what he does’ - and you know what happened - hate, ignorance, irrationality from the Dems here, and of course the foreigners . And that has been the story. Why? Can’t people think for themselves?


Thanks Dave. I fear the perennial penchant of all we partisans is to feel and assert that those who differ with us “can’t think” and have an inferior “mentality.” And I think today’s propaganda wars just intensify this sense that we will high five among ourselves and not “communicate” or interact with those who differ. I am not proud when I as a Christian put my concern about earthly ruling politicians in a place of such huge import for my sanity, or cut myself off from the wisdom in those who differ with me.

You focus on wanting to hear critics endorse good things Trump has done. I regularly post things I admire on my FB page, but don’t see political differences as the main focus of this forum here. So given that my political views are quite different, and overall I am deeply uneasy about Trump, I am not likely to be listing his good points in response to someone exalting him and harshly attacking my own point of view.

But it’s easy as pie for folk like me to recognize many good things in Trump. For heaven sakes, he’s showed some real effort to faithfully pursue many issues he raised in his campaign. That certainly deserves some respect. He also has done his darnedest to get and keep us out of unnecessary wars. He supported much better sentencing guidelines, appointed some good people, etc, etc. Shucks, I even implied that he has a wonderful wife. But I honestly am not confident, that if those of us who differ with you on major points had acknowledged along the way, that of course Trump has done some good, that it would satisfy those who have ripped on us and our vantage point of being sharply critical of Trump’s character and policies. We need to engage where we differ even when we’re not hearing praise for our side.


Yep per, no way to change the system ‘OR’ others views. To think we can get on a forum or on social media and effect change is a bit naive, though it does make us feel good.

Where I think we can do something is in the local arena. Grass roots politics from the ground up. Township, county, region, state… When I post here it is taken as a … well what it is a ‘post’, when I talk to or confront my local politicians, there is a personal aspect to the exchange. If I have my shoot together and can verbalize my position, to the very person who has been elected into office, it might stick. It might not but what the hell, it is worth the try :roll_eyes:


Dave, even if the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox church - declared Trump a saint…It still wouldn’t change, how the world’s media -.sees and portrays him…We ALL have to wait, to see how the history books - finally portray him.

The ONLY thing I would want, from what the Left has to complain about…is a universal health care system. If the rest of the world can provide one, then so can we.

Perhaps this story from the BBC, might cheer everyone up.

Would President Trump make a good comedian?


We are capable of so much more than we’ve accomplished so far, and free enterprise is the most powerful economic system yet to be tried by mankind.

Isn’t it time for an end to the outdated debate about socialism versus capitalism and a national return to the free enterprise system which made America great?


True, there is plenty of inequality in America and it’s unfair yet in Cuba or Venezuela or Bolivia there is less inequality but no one is emigrating there because there is no opportunity and almost everyone is poor.


Not for the most part, most people just believe the media and the media knows this and takes full advantage.
The dirty little secret may be that the higher ups in the media may want Trump to get re-elected so they can keep their business model/ cashcow!


History has proven the following: 1) Under capitalism, the divide between rich and poor naturally increases; 2) In a free enterprise system, the prosperity, freedom and dignity of nearly everyone in the society inevitably rises.


RIGHT ON, Hollytree!

In Canada, I once ran as a candidate for the Social Credit Party of Canada. That Party promoted free enterprise, but opposed both capitalism and socialism.You may wonder why it was called “Social Credit.”
They believed that the money system should be socialized, but nothing else.

It is based on a monetary philosophy developed by C. H. Douglas (1879–1952).


I thought the US, were the good guys…championing truth, justice and mom’s apple pie…But this story in the BBC today, got me to wonder!

Let me quote a sentence, that captivated my attention!

And now there are reports US intelligence services were involved.

What is the world coming to? Pretty soon the tribulation and Z-Hell ( 1, 2, 3)…will come knocking on our door.



Is that the same as the Universal Basic Income idea now supported by a right wing think tank in America? Edit. London

The idea of universal basic income is today backed by a right-wing think tank.

The Adam Smith Institute says the Government should look at paying everyone in the country a flat wage regardless of whether they are in work.


Sorry Paidion that’s in London. I think they’re talking of it in America though.

Yep. Basic Income America

C. H. Douglas is mentioned here showing that Universal Basic Income isn’t a new idea



Here is a site that briefly explains Social Credit Theory:

The final leader of the Canadian SC Party was Ken Campbell, a fundamentalist Baptist, who (in my opinion) was responsible for the demise of the Canadian Party. He actually advised people NOT to vote Social Credit!


Tragic mass shooting in NZ. I hope New Zealaners are wiser than Americans and crack down on gun ownership.


Yes very sad and still at this moment an active situation… it seems two mosques have been shot up and some reports saying near 30 fatalities atm. A terrible hate crime/terror attack. NZ like Australia don’t have a gun culture, only cops and military are armed.

UPDATE: at least 4 terrorist/criminal perpetrators have been apprehended with at least one being an Australian citizen living in NZ. They are apparently part of an alt-right Muslim-hating extremist group — bad, sad and shameful.


Here’s the latest from the BBC today:

There are more stories about this at:

Among other pertinent stories - like this one!

Since I am exploring Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism (where I will finally settle on one)…and Eastern Orthodoxy has vegan fasts…I found this article today. And I am a Flexitarian, by the way!:

Perhaps we also need to bypass, centuries of tradition - and years of training - for becoming a REAL, Native American shaman or medicine person. Someone stirred me today, for the solution. The Craigslist shaman.

And I joined a Facebook Zen group this week. You had to answer the question:

What does Zen mean to you?

I answered:

Nothing and everything!

And they let me in!

Note: If one is exploring plant based sacraments and medicines…I would advise finding a REAL Native American shaman or medicine person…who follows centuries of tradition and years of training. And has a solid, ethical foundation. And for the record, such ceremonies last all night. And I can neither confirm - nor deny - whether I have ever partaken of plant based sacraments…under the context of a REAL, Native American ceremony. But here’s the Claigslist shaman solution.

And here’s a short historical video, on wild west gunfights.


Just ordered this:

By presenting the key economic ideas of Major Clifford Hugh Douglas (1879-1952) in a clear, systematic, and comprehensive fashion, this work constitutes an academic standard of reference for those who wish to obtain a more advanced understanding of Social Credit economics. It is divided into three parts covering Douglas’ diagnosis regarding the nature and cause of economic dysfunction in the modern, industrialized world, his prognosis, including an evaluation of the conventional methods of macroeconomic management, and, finally, his remedial principles and proposals. Just as Douglas’ analysis goes to the very heart of what is structurally wrong with the financial and economic systems of contemporary civilization, “Social Credit Economics” effectively captures and distills the essence of his economic thought, rendering it more easily accessible to the broadly educated and reflective reader.

A review:

There have been many books written about Social Credit but NONE has provided such a comprehensive investigation into every aspect that its father CH Douglas articulated, and then framed them in the context of the 21st century. When you consider that we are fast approaching total industrial automation with 3-D printing for on-demand manufacturing, computer-aided software to replace our professionals (i.e. lawyers, doctors, teachers, etc.) and even robots to flip burgers at McDonalds, how will people be able to “make a living” without a job? I’ll tell you how; with social credit! Get this book and find out for yourself. Knowledge is power and the people perish for lack of knowledge. This is the Bible of Social Credit. This is knowledge EVERYBODY NEEDS!