The Evangelical Universalist Forum

How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Just so everyone is aware of the reason why anything I may post on this or any other topic, I should explain.

I am not currently in full possession of my faculty to think with any coherence having had nine teeth pulled yesterday, I am in pain, my mind is obscured by drugs and I feel antagonist to any and all opinions that are expressed on this topic. I am taking drugs that may affect my normal rational opinions. Don’t worry, I have prescribed for myself a drug I know will combat the others I am taking, having sent out for, and received, a 750 ml bottle of Drambuie. By evening, all my pain and political problems will have receded into complete obscurity.

See, it is already taking effect. This post is the least coherent of any I have made. It’s working!

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No, but you are leading me to believe everything is a Zombie!
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This brings to mind, a dental video. Maybe it will make you feel better. :crazy_face:

And here’s one for Dave. :crazy_face:

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I’m not referring to debating/discussing military topics or any topic in general, just expanding a political thread here on a bible forum into another side topic, that being military strategy.

Just my opinion, but if you two want to debate military strategy, go for it.

Steve to Bob and Dave.

Where do angels fear to tread?

I don’t know. Ask Alexander Pope. :wink:

I have a friend, who will alert me to any military or political advice - given on this forum. :wink:

We’re not angels, and the fools got in way before we did. They’re now congressmen.

Unlike with Nixon and Clinton, the House is not building on an existing law enforcement investigation. That was supposed to be Mueller. Instead, the “investigation” is jerry-rigged in real-time consisting of a stage-managed parade of credentialed hostile witnesses interpreting what Trump said. It is like a room full of critics impeaching Bob Dylan out of the Hall of Fame by telling us what his lyrics really mean to him. Opinions are not evidence.<<

This is a good wrap-up of the impeachment nonsense. If you can find a hole in it, let us know. And draw your own conclusions. The MSM are not the boss of you.

Since Dave had had just posted articles on this thread and himself argued that leaving the Kurds in Erdogan and Putin’s hands was a brilliant strategy in terms of the military results that it would produce, I didn’t think challenging that was changing the subject.

Amid discussing President Trump’s move in Syria, this critique at least affirms his instinct to change the way America has gotten entrenched in endless wars, which amid our differences, both Dave and I sense should be recognized as a strategic insight.

I cannot see a crime here. I don’t even see a lapse of judgment let alone a pro quid pro - though truth be told, EVERY dealing with a foreign nation appears to have some sort of a pro quid pro, right? What nation acts purely altruistically?
Is the smoke being blown REALLY enough to bring down a President that we elected, just because the Left is ticked off? It makes me despair, but not enough to keep me from posting.
No crime. Dershowitz among others agrees with that.

Thanks for inviting us to try to thoughtfully let you know what we make of Mr. Van Buren’s take. I especially appreciated how well he summarizes that “the core question” is "Did Trump withhold aid in return for a Ukrainian investigation, and was seeking such an investigation solely a personal political goal?"

Though the headline implies only “smoke” exists, my guess is that public hearings will convince a majority of Americans (and certainly most of those without partisan commitments) that Trump did hold vital military security aid in pursuing such a quid pro quo of providing information on Biden, and indeed had great “personal political” interest in seeking this goal of such an investigation.

Indeed I think most GOP senators already perceive that this is the most reasonable conclusion (and would like to defend it as not worthy of impeachment), and I don’t hear even Mr. Van Buren arguing that it’s not likely. (Steve e.g. further said it’s a wrong thing to do, but not impeachable; and even you concede things inevitably “appear to have some sort of quid pro quo”).

Thus Van Buren’s pivotal word is “solely.” He asks in effect, was a foreign power (Ukraine) pressured this way to find something on Biden “solely” to benefit Trump’s political goals (or was this maneuver driven by concern for “the interests of the” nation). My impression is that Van Buren feels it’s got to be both, and thus is not subject to the Constitution’s emphasis on the emoluments clauses and not pursuing the help of other nations in the president’s own interests of holding power).

Of course, certainty here about what truly motivates the president is debatable. My guess is that many critics will perceive, that Trump shows no interest in pushing to ferret out corruption elsewhere, even in some nations which assassinate Americans. And they see that of all the political threats to him, he has repeatedly tweeted the most about the one who polls show most likely to beat him next year, such that in the face of huge Soviet threats and occupation of Ukraine (not even broached by Trump), that the name Trump shows interest in concerning Ukraine’s challenges is “Biden” is hardly coincidence.

For them, that Trump is the kind of campaigner seeking to win again, such that his focus with Ukraine on his political rival is truly because of his devotion to all of us, rather than his own “political interest,” will seem to them crazy unlikely.

Of course, those more positive toward Trump will likely feel that he may well have been driven by the thought that obtaining such dirt on Biden would enhance the lives and interests of the nation, and thus that such a quid pro quo was not an impeachable crime, or even good.

I’d predict that in our polarized era, these perceptions will divide along partisan lines. Thus it’s likely the Dem House will bring him to the GOP Senate who will acquit him, and the ultimate decision on the fitness of his approach to governing will rest with American voters, which I’d think is best, especially given our great division in perceptions.

This week’s star witness is a prime example. Lt. Colonel Alexander S. Vindman is the director of European affairs at the National Security Council. He has strong positions about Ukraine that he hopes will become U.S. policy.

There is no way to read his opening statement except to note that Trump’s phone call bothered him because he disagreed with it. He was concerned that if Ukraine investigated the Bidens, the country would lose “bipartisan support” which, he thinks, would undermine “national security.”

Maybe the 63 million citizens who voted for Trump believe that a foreign country fabricating dirt on a U.S. presidential candidate while the vice president’s son is paid off by an associated energy company compromises national security.

Haven’t we been told for three years that election interference is America’s greatest threat?

The mainstream media tried to make any criticism of Vindman off-limits because he is in the military and received a purple heart for injuries he sustained from a roadside bomb in Iraq. Among those who voted for Trump’s foreign policy are veterans who lost limbs in battle, veterans who fought Nazis, and veterans who have been awarded the highest military honors.

None would think to acquire a job in the White House where they would invoke their military service to insist that the president defer to them on matters of foreign policy.

To vault Vindman’s service over the superior military sacrifices of so many Trump voters is the worst kind of stolen valor.

There have been many investigations aimed at impeaching President Trump. They’ve all been idiotic and baseless, but none more so than this one.
https://amgreatness.com/2019/10/31/the-stupidest-impeachment-ever/

After preparing a failed bill of particulars against the president—Russian election collusion, porn star payoffs, income tax evasion, obstruction of justice, the Emoluments Clause, the 25th Amendment, the Charlottesville rally, the two Michaels (Avenatti and Cohen), Deutsche Bank, Alfa-Bank, and Orange Man Bad—Representative Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) finally has Trump dead-to-rights: A quid pro quo without the quid , the pro , or the quo .

I wonder what’s in, the BBC news today?

Just a comment here. Trump wouldn’t be in hot water today…if everyone he hired, was like this gentleman. :crazy_face:

That’s exactly what the Dems are doing right now, holding up a bill containing 250 mill of aid for Ukraine because of their personal political goals.
What a continuing huge double standard in politics , the Dems actually break the law and then accuse Trump of what they actually do.
Fortunately this will help reelect Trump, giving him the one missing ingredient he can’t garner himself, “sympathy.”

All these witnesses are giving their opinions about the call. This last witness was advised by Adam Schiff not to respond to Republical questions???
If this isn’t a kangaroo court, nothing is.

We need a leader, for this court. :crazy_face:

I hope this leader, opens the right door. :crazy_face: