The Evangelical Universalist Forum

How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Nope, I haven’t met this leftist fellow, but I recognize the middle of the road reasonable guy :slight_smile:

Update: Sunday, GOP Sen. Kennedy (LA) said if Trump’s use of taxpayer funds to pressure Ukraine
to investigate Biden was because he was a political rival, he would impeach (key word: because !).
But if his motive was to seek corruption for our national interests, it’s o.k. (Face the Nation).
Later on CBS, Rand Paul said this analysis nailed it.

He brilliantly suggests the Senate debate won’t dispute the facts: a quid pro quo bribe
to obtain a damaging report on Biden, but insist it was not motivated by political self-interest.

He hangs it on the subjectivity of Trump’s motives. So I again predict that perceptions of what made Biden and Trump’s earlier election his sole conversational concern toward a Ukraine under attack by Russia will totally divide along partisan lines. GOPers will insist beating Biden did not motivate Trump’s devotion to this. Dems will say, Get real, that’s not at all the “winning is everything” campaigner we see.

Really? I have

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We schizophrenic multiple personalities are often unacquainted with each other :wink:
Maybe you’ll imagine you see “leftist Bob” in my latest perceptions posted today.

Like the 3 Faces of Eve!

More evidence of the slimy impeachment/Mueller axis:

" Fiona Hill, President Trump’s left-leaning former Russia adviser at the National Security Council, has pretty well blown the Steele dossier out of the water. According to the Daily Caller:

A former White House official who [sic] Democrats consider a key witness in their impeachment inquiry told lawmakers in October that she believed Russians likely planted disinformation about President Donald Trump with dossier author Christopher Steele.

Fiona Hill, who served as the White House’s top adviser on Russia affairs until July, told lawmakers she was “shocked” to find out that Steele, a former MI6 officer, was the author of the dossier. That’s in large part because when she had met with Steele in the years leading up to his dossier work, he was “constantly try to drum up business.”

Hill, who was deposed in the impeachment inquiry on Oct. 14, said Steele’s eagerness to obtain work made him vulnerable to Russian disinformation.

It was always garbage, and a good Russia expert such as herself could see it immediately.

It was a “rabbit hole.” It was the sort of thing that the Russians liked to cook up. It was done to discredit President Trump because she knew they wanted to do that. And its purveyor, former British spy Christopher Steele, was just the right sort of dupe to get the ball rolling, Hill testified. She said as much back in September, too."

Now here’s an interesting article, from today’s Patheos Evangelical newsletter.

Let me quote this short article.

More interesting research on America’s political polarization. This one sees the divide in terms of a concept often studied by Christian scholars: worldview.From Emma Green, Americans Hate One Another. Impeachment Isn’t Helping, The Atlantic :

According to a growing body of political-science research, Americans largely no longer feel a shared sense of national identity. Democrats and Republicans see their political opponents as enemies with totally incomprehensible beliefs and lifestyles. On impeachment, members of the two parties see things radically differently, not just because they have dissimilar political opinions, but because they have entirely divergent views on how to approach life. The vicious impeachment fight ahead may further exacerbate polarization in America, leaving Republicans, Democrats, and everyone in between feeling even more suspicious of one another. . . .

According to research from two scholars at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Marc Hetherington and Jonathan Weiler, Americans’ assumptions about their political opponents’ bad faith is rooted in something deeper than partisan affiliation. People on opposite sides of the political spectrum actually have non-overlapping worldviews, which makes it hard for them to see anything legitimate in their political opponents’ views. The archetypes Hetherington and Weiler draw in their 2018 book, Prius or Pickup? , are intuitively recognizable: Americans with a more conservative, or “fixed,” orientation value obedience in their children and strength in their leaders. They often fear the world around them, and prize stability and tradition over experimentation and change. By comparison, Americans with a more liberal, or “fluid,” worldview strive to raise independent, curious children and see empathy and tolerance as the most noble qualities a leader can embody. They believe in questioning authority and abhor performative shows of toughness.This sharp worldview divide helps explain the current dynamics in Washington around impeachment—why people are so angry, and why each side automatically counts each new revelation as evidence for its case.

Actually, “worldview” goes much deeper, having to do not just with child raising philosophy but what one believes about God, nature, human nature, the source of morality, the meaning of life, etc., etc. I’m not sure these researchers fully engage that and the complexity that often arises. For example, is morality based on a transcendent absolute or do we make it up for ourselves? OK, we can see that social conservatives believe the former, while social liberals believe the latter. That does correspond pretty well with the political division. But which of those worldview descriptors best describes the morality of Donald Trump? And which side today sounds more like moral absolutists–being judgmental, expressing moral indignation, signaling their virtue, and exuding self-righteousness–and which side is willing to give character flaws and personal transgressions a pass?

Also, the researchers are, once again, displaying their own political bias, which is against the rules of social-science objectivity, applying their findings to Trump supporters, while being almost comically blind to how their findings apply to themselves. (“Partisan bias is so strong that even in the absence of strong counterarguments on behalf of the president, we’re seeing no movement in public opinion about impeachment.”)

But the biggest problem with the study is revealed in its title: Prius or Pickup? Clearly at issue here is not just worldview but social class. Progressives who deign to campaign in Iowa or in rust belt factories may be surprised–even frightened at the “performative shows of toughness”–when they see so many working class Democrats driving pickups. I also know quite a few conservatives who drive hybrids, not because they are trying to save the environment but because they are so tight-fisted with their money and like the high gas mileage. (As in the old joke: Liberals drive Priuses because they want everyone to see them driving a hybrid. Conservatives drive hybrids that look just like the other models because they don’t want anyone to see them driving a hybrid.)

Still, I think the research connecting worldview and politics is on to something, but I’m not exactly sure what that is. Any ideas?

But this article is a bit far fetched…based upon the harmonious interactions, between Republicans, Democrats, and Zombies - here on this forum, Don’t you think? :crazy_face:

Bob, we of the extreme middle are always viewed as leftist by the ultra-right. Relative to their position on the political spectrum, we are leftists.

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Ultra-right. Now THAT shows me you actually do have a sense of humor!
I’m afraid you guys could not find the middle if it was pointed out to you - actually it has been and you still won’t see it. lol.
Anyone who says ‘I’‘m in the middle’ who is not honest enough to admit DT has done anything good at all - is not in the middle. You are way out in left field. and you glory in it. You are like the rest of the Left, unfortunately.
You never did answer me, Don, about the Bongino article I posted above.

We need a song, to amplify this statement! :crazy_face:

One of my favs.

It’s predictable, and now validated!

More good stuff from Trump that you Party men won’t acknowledge. You are getting tiring.
African American unemployment reached an all time low of 5.4 percent in October, resulting in the smallest gap between black and white unemployment rates ever recorded. The Hispanic unemployment rate likewise reached an all-time low of 3.9 percent in September, and the Hispanic-American labor force participation rate reached its highest level in a decade the following month.

The left is fanatical about enforcing equal outcomes, and yet Democrats are trying desperately to get rid of a president whose policies have reduced economic disparities between racial groups to the lowest level in American history.

Not surprisingly, income inequality – a major Democrat bugaboo – is also declining. Contrary to fake news accounts, the Census Bureau’s recommended report on income and poverty recently found that income inequality declined slightly in 2018 using a traditional measure. It also applied a more thorough “equivalency” measure and found a “statistically significant” decline. In fact, the share of household income actually increased the most for the lowest 20 percent of earners (3.4 percent) while the top 20 percent was the only quintile to experience a decrease.

Here’s the rest of the story, which you won’t read
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/andy-puzder-ah-the-irony-of-impeachment-look-how-trump-policies-work-for-dem-voters

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What’s new in the BBC today? :crazy_face:

The truth about those who intend to rule us with or without our consent is that, instead of putting America first, they have been using the power of government to advance an anti-American agenda—open borders, hollowing out our economy to the benefit of the Chinese, drowning the American voter in a flood of Muslims and people from the Third World; the list goes on and on.

Trump, of course, represents a threat to the elite’s project of selling America down the river. He has to be stopped, and those Americans who have not gotten with the program for America the elite has chosen for us must be taught a hard lesson about who now rules in America.
https://amgreatness.com/2019/11/10/has-the-coup-already-happened/

That’s another thing that bugs me. Is the U.S.A. so arrogant that it considers its citizens and territories to constitute America? Have you ever heard of “North America” that includes Canada and Mexico? Have you ever heard of “South America”— Brazil, Argentina, Peru, etc.? Or do you really believe that “America” means “United States” alone, and not the aggregate of the 14 countries of America?

Paidion to DaveB2.0

That’s why I read, the BBC News every day. As well as watching it on PBS TV stations. You see news like this today:


The left is more fanatical about serving their God, his name is 'Power."

What’s new in the BBC news today?