The Evangelical Universalist Forum

How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

Practices Christian Living
#3895

So we start the process of some of us here saying we believe in ‘Christian Universalism’ and as we progress, we see that as we slide into politics, things get sketchy…

Christianity Today Says: In our founding documents, Billy Graham explains that Christianity Today will help evangelical Christians interpret the news in a manner that reflects their faith. The impeachment of Donald Trump is a significant event in the story of our republic. It requires comment.

As it goes…

CT says: We have reserved judgment on Mr. Trump for years now. Some have criticized us for our reserve. But when it comes to condemning the behavior of another, patient charity must come first. So we have done our best to give evangelical Trump supporters their due, to try to understand their point of view, to see the prudential nature of so many political decisions they have made regarding Mr. Trump. To use an old cliché, it’s time to call a spade a spade, to say that no matter how many hands we win in this political poker game, we are playing with a stacked deck of gross immorality and ethical incompetence. And just when we think it’s time to push all our chips to the center of the table, that’s when the whole game will come crashing down. It will crash down on the reputation of evangelical religion and on the world’s understanding of the gospel. And it will come crashing down on a nation of men and women whose welfare is also our concern.

Dumbest thing I have ever heard. Some morons were willing to jump on the man’s bandwagon when things were going their way. Bunch of a@@ holes as far as I can see. But to be forward, Christianity Today is the essence of what is wrong with Christian thought.

#3896

Well, let’s spoil Christmas and New Year - shall we? Perhaps Trump should define “immediate”? :crazy_face:

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Let’s zoom in, on a Fox News commentator…let’s see how they are responding, to this impeachment stuff. :crazy_face:

#3897

Golly gee they are offended by Trump’s behavior!! That is a true revelation & epiphany indeed and i need CT to tell me that Trump doesn’t act like a true Christian should, so i will switch my allegiance to a party that gleefully celebrates late term abortions!!

1 Like
#3898

Both ends?? I only have noticed a left end and it no longer is just an end, it’s pervasive!

#3899

We’ve done a pretty good job doing that, Randy. Call me Ebenezer Scrooge if you like but, these days, much about the “celebration” of Christmas is humbug. When I was a boy in Scotland, December 25 was not a national holiday.

Christmas Day only became a Scottish Bank Holiday in 1958, and until the 1960s it was the norm for most people across the country to work normally if December 25 fell on a weekday.

For many of us, this time of year is a depressing time. So much pressure, too many sad memories. I’ll be spending December 25 alone in my suite, maybe sipping a little Drambuie. I’ll celebrate the fact of the birth of our Lord but in the quietness of my own thoughts.

I’ll also watch and listen to the following Christmas song and chuckle for the umpteenth time:

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiN5-vR1cTmAhVG7J4KHUpHBWYQ3ywwAHoECAoQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DGGUzkUMXNCc&usg=AOvVaw20UCMEII8PsXjWEaKs7snN

God bless you, one and all.

1 Like
#3900

And this from Franklin Graham:

“Yes, my father Billy Graham founded Christianity Today ; but no, he would not agree with their opinion piece. In fact, he would be very disappointed,” Graham said, noting that the misappropriation of his father’s name is what moved him to reveal whom his father voted for in 2016.

Rev. Graham then proceeded to offer his own searing indictment of the behavior of House Democrats in their “politically motivated, 100% partisan” impeachment of the president.

“For Christianity Today to side with the Democrat Party in a totally partisan attack on the President of the United States is unfathomable,” Graham wrote. “ Christianity Today failed to acknowledge that not one single Republican voted with the Democrats to impeach the President.”

“I know a number of Republicans in Congress, and many of them are strong Christians,” he declared. “If the President were guilty of what the Democrats claimed, these Republicans would have joined with the Democrats to impeach him. But the Democrats were not even unanimous—two voted against impeachment and one voted present.”

#3901

When CT or I has outlined the uncontested facts, no one here has argued against their reality. It’s all an ad hominem attack. Indeed, CT’s risk of bucking most of their readers’ partisan biases takes guts.

The president and all his knowledgeable allies have been invited in both the House and Senate to present their view of the facts. The fact that none will appear is due to the president’s decision to block their appearance. That leaves the possibility that there is enormous fear of what telling the president’s side of the story would expose.

#3902

Republicans were both impeded and blocked in the House in presenting exculpatory evidence, in calling any witnesses, and in cross-examining the (always) democrat-chosen witnesses before the president was impeached.

1 Like
#3903

I thought that since we “chatted” on this forum, regarding Trump and Muslim dialogue. Let’s see what a Muslim writer, for the Atlantic - has to say. :crazy_face:

Let me quote a bit.

Most of the people whom I like or trust believe—and believe rather strongly—that what Trump has done rises to a crime.

Yet if you believe, as I do, that Trump is bad, but also that his badness falls somewhat short of an existential threat, then impeachment, however, justified in theory, becomes less straightforward.

Ultimately, the decision to impeach is a matter of judgment, not so much a question of whether Trump committed high crimes and misdemeanors (he almost certainly did) as to whether invoking the Constitution’s impeachment provision right now is a good idea.

#3904

"“First they made up collusion… I searched the statute books. There’s no crime of collusion… with a foreign country. After that, they said obstruction of Congress,” Dershowitz said. “In a desperate effort to try to find crimes [committed by] President Trump, they’re just making it up. And that means we are all in danger.”

#3905

Well, we heard from Christianity Today. We heard from an Atlantic magazine, Muslim writer. Let’s see what Patheos’ Evangelical newsletter, has to say today. :crazy_face:

Let me quote a bit:

I myself am worried that the Democrats are in thrall to the Russians. Why else would Democrats do everything they can to ensure that President Trump wins re-election?

#3906

OK, do you expect then in the GOP controlled Senate trial, they will be willing to call any supposedly exculpatory witnesses, or those who are close to Trump and know exactly what he did?

P.S. It false that some of the House witnesses were not chosen by the Republicans.

#3907

Good news, folks! The annual speech will take place! :crazy_face:

#3908

Oh the games people play!! :slight_smile:

#3909

qaz, It appears we struggle to understand each other, but I appreciate your perseverance in arguing an interesting case about what ‘truths’ you perceive gov’t should enforce.

[quote=“qaz, post:3891, topic:6062, full:true”]

“You’re equating “minority views” with false views. The alternative is for the government to discriminate against true views.”

Response: No, my point is the opposite! That the truth or falsity of contested views is irrelevant. But that gov’t power should not always be the arbiter of whose views are correct or ‘discriminatable’ against.

“Your argument is that government has done things in the past that were nonsensical, therefore we shouldn’t oppose it affirming nonsense when it comes to transgenders.”

Response: No, precedent is irrelevant to my central point that views and practices you recognize as irrational should not necessarily be made illegal by the gov’t in a free society.

Again, I’m arguing against gov’t necessarily declaring what metaphysics must be believed or enforced, and in favor of freedom for the practice of diversity. So just as I opposed forcing belief in transgenderism, but freedom for transgenders to dress or identify in terms of their beliefs, I’d oppose forcing belief in a young earth, but affirm freedom for young earthers to hold and practice that belief.

#3910

See - I do have perspective. (I did not read the post, but Randy referred to it)
Here’s a somber and substantial Democrat:

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And another:
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Hey, another:

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and a couple of out and out lies for good measure:

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I have lots more perspective on these servants of the people, who are filled with tolerance, and accuse the Right of intolerance and lying.

#3911

On the Christianity today thread, I find qaz’s perceptions on impeachment not unreasonable, and similar to those of Christianity Today.

Trump today dismissed those latter as coming from not only a liberal, but a “ FAR LEFT magazine.” This reveals how the right uses this favorite epithet as an ad hominem dismissal of anyone who doesn’t support whatever Trump does.

I’ve subscribed to Christianity Today for 50 years. It is a bastion of fundamental Bible Christianity. It regularly labels Christians I respect as heretics. Calling conservative evangelicals the “ far left ” is fake news. Trump says he will stop reading Christianity Today, but I doubt he reads anything religious.

Imagine how extreme right you have to be to consider traditional right-wing conservatism “far left”.

#3912

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And this is the sanest of the bunch?

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And ouch! This one hurts:

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#3913

Gee! What can the US, learn from the UK?

Oh, Santa Clause. Has President Trump been naughty - or nice - this week? :crazy_face:

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And a story not from the BBC. :crazy_face:

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I have a video clip, of this meeting. :crazy_face:

#3914

Note: You want to know, what will beat Trump in 2020? Well, I’ll tell you. Joe Biden will probably win the Democratic nomination. And Mike Bloomberg will probably run, as a third-party candidate. So let’s assume Joe wins the nomination. He should offer a post of Vice President, to Mike Bloomberg. Why? Because you have a man worth approximately fifty-four billion behind you. Who can fund the ads and hire the best PR, social media and advertising teams available What do you think?

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And what message, would this deliver - to President Trump? :crazy_face:

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