The Evangelical Universalist Forum

How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper

The phrase “general Welfare” is the only phrase to appear twice in the United States Constitution. It first appears in the preamble to the Constitution and then later in Section 8.

It’s important for seniors, in particular, to understand the background of the phrase, because it is Section 8 of the Constitution’s “general Welfare” clause that the Supreme Court found Social Security to be Constitutional.

Exactly what does Section 8 say?

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;–And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Even while the Constitution was being debated, our Founding Fathers immediately began to disagree over what they meant by the ‘general Welfare clause.’ James Madison , an aristocrat and plantation owner, argued that Section 8 clearly delineated the exact powers the federal government had with respect to the ‘general welfare.” The problem for Madison was the last section as it seemed to give broad powers to the Federal government. Alexander Hamilton , a lawyer and banker, argued just that. He argued that Section 8 meant the federal government had the power to do almost anything with respect to the general welfare, provided the conditions laid out for taxation were upheld. Their respective positions are laid out in the now famous, “Federalist Papers.” Since both men were instrumental in drafting the Constitution, both opinions had weight.

The point to be made here is, the Founding Fathers disagreed as to how the Congress of the United States would operate. Madison held a narrow view of the role of the federal government and Hamilton held a much broader view. It is Hamilton’s view that has dominated what is called “settled case law” since Social Security. And since that is the case, it might be useful to look at why. Some people believe that reading the text of the Constitution is the only thing necessary in understanding what our Founding Fathers intended; but I think it’s important to understand who our Founding Fathers were and why they wrote, what they wrote.

First, let’s look at the country. At the time of the writing of the United States Constitution, the entire country had less than 3 million people. Think about that; this vast new land had less than 3 million people. The most populated colony was Pennsylvania with 335,000 residents, including 8,000 slaves and the second most was South Carolina with 225,000 residents, including 97,000 slaves.

The colonies were agrarian. Largely populated by plantations. And those plantations were operated by slaves. For those individuals who thought the United States would continue to be a plantation society, like James Madison and even Thomas Jefferson, small government seemed to make sense. Plantations were like self-sufficient little towns unto themselves. Very profitable little towns based on a slavery business model. Wade Hampton of South Caroline was the wealthiest man in America with 3,000 slaves. Plantation owners like Madison, Hampton, Jefferson saw little reason to look to a federal government to do little more than provide for a defense against internal or external aggression.

Alexander Hamilton, on the other hand, was a lawyer and banker from New York; a colony of 221,000, of which 21,000 were slaves. Hamilton saw the coming of an industrial revolution and the end of a Plantation society — That there would be Manufacturing in America and that the Federal government would need to play a role in it.

Hamilton argued in the Federalist Papers that, with the exception of the three qualifiers noted in the Constitution: “the power to raise money is plenary, and indefinite; and the objects to which it may be appropriated are no less comprehensive than the payment of public debts and the providing for the common defence and “general Welfare.” … “General Welfare necessarily embraces a variety of particulars, which are susceptible neither of specifications nor of definition.”

In other words, Hamilton believed that the Federal government could tax Americans as long as it provided for the general welfare, in a fair manner. And it is Hamilton’s vision of what Section 8 meant, that the Supreme Court has used to find Social Security to be Constitutional.

Now some Americans to this day prefer Madison’s interpretation of the Constitution. But the fact is that Madison’s opinion was based on his belief that America would remain an agrarian society based on slave labor. Hamilton saw the coming industrial revolution and the need for a stronger federal government and the Court has sided with Hamilton.

Filed Under: Featured Blog Posts, Medicare, Political, Social Security, Uncategorized

About Georgeana Mimms

Georgeana Mimms was a researcher at the Social Policy Lab of the Andrus Gerontology Center at the University of Southern California, Deputy Director of the Asociation Pro Personas Mayores and a Special Consultant to the Los Angeles County Area Agency on Aging.

The economy of the north was many times larger then the south and grew out of Capitalism and defeated the south and defeated slavery. We defeated slavery because Capitalism gave the north the economic strength to defeat the south.
Capitalism is not perfect because people are not perfect but it is far better then socialism or communism.

Additionally there is no “Soviet communism” verses other communism, all communism leads to misery and repression. So called “Other communism” has empowered leaders like,

Pol Pot
Mao
North Korean leaders like Kim Jung Un and his father and grandfather
Castro
Daniel Ortega
Maduro (Socialism morphing into communism)
etc etc

Also Christian communism is a contradiction since the former is by choice and persuasion whereas Communism is by force and confiscation , the two are in different universes.

So well put, Steve. :+1: :+1:

Since Romans tells us that God has given some of His authority to the Governing officials to carry out God’s will I believe the Government should intervene to love and protect. We see this with social security, police officers, the military, firemen, etc. We need social programs. It’s a balance with capitalism and socialism. Complete capitalism is called Laissez Fair. It’s no intervention by government. It’s Darwinism’s survival of the fittest. It’s the God of nature and reason - Deism. Our Founding fathers believed God intervenes. They were Theistic Rationalists (Natural theology, Christian Protestantism, and Reason). They believed in intervention (miracles love) that transcend and go beyond natural law. It’s faith beyond reason.

This is NOT an idea “cast in concrete”. But a “let’s test the waters” business idea. :crazy_face:

Reposted from above

Since Romans tells us that God has given some of His authority to the Governing officials to carry out God’s will I believe the Government should intervene to love and protect. We see this with social security, police officers, the military, firemen, etc. We need social programs. It’s a balance with capitalism and socialism. Complete capitalism is called Laissez Fair. It’s no intervention by government. It’s Darwinism’s survival of the fittest. It’s the God of nature and reason - Deism. Our Founding fathers believed God intervenes. They were Theistic Rationalists (Natural theology, Christian Protestantism, and Reason). They believed in intervention (miracles love) that transcend and go beyond natural law. It’s faith beyond reason.

I wasn’t aware anyone supported no social programs, certainly no one at this forum.

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Certainly some programs are necessary and taxpayers should be happy to freely contribute to them.
Food for thought, though: many of the existing or proposed social programs are only there to make up for human lack of personal and familial responsibilities.
It is no secret that welfare is abused and gamed by a host of people who find it easier to take taxpayer money than to go to work.
It is no secret that the bulk of black families have no father figure - the men are not responsible enough to keep jobs and keep it in their pants - so the taxpayer ends up footing the welfare bill there as well. Of course, fatherlessness is a big thing across all colors including white: 57.6% of black children, 31.2% of Hispanic children, and 20.7% of white children are living absent their biological fathers. Source: Family Structure and Children’s Living Arrangements 2012 . Current Population Report. U.S. Census Bureau July 1, 2012.)
It’s no secret that if families took care of one another, including their aged parents, most welfare programs as well as the breakdown of morals in society would not be necessary.
And it’s no secret that if Americans were responsible consumers and lived within their budgets, social security programs would be almost unnecessary.
In short, social programs are in effect giving the government the job of regulating us because we cannot regulate ourselves.

You’re right I’m finding that in the book by Donald Trump, “The America We Deserve” he said this:

“We must have universal healthcare.”

“The goal of health care reform should be a system that looks a lot like Canada.”

I’m goin to be getting a copy of the book and check out the videos and references on this site. I’ll get back with you.

I say thee, NAY! Hopefully, it is Mike Bloomberg and hypothetically Hillary. :crazy_face:

Heres Trump on video and also some quotes. Listen to his plan to replace Obama Care. It’s universal healthcare! Maybe this will be what he reveals after the elections with his healthcare plan! I like the way Trump operates!

I do too. But I also like the way Mike Bloomberg operates. :smiley:

I can just imagine the battle now. :crazy_face:

Time for round 2. :crazy_face:

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Woke Culture is the haunting fear that white people somewhere may be happy. -Jim Goad

Here’s the vidio where Trump supports socialized healthcare

Here’s the excerpt from The America We Deserve :

I would impose a one-time , 14.25% tax on individuals and trusts with a net worth over $10 million. That would raise $5.7 trillion in new revenue, which we would use to pay off the entire national debt. We would save $200 billion in interest payments, which would allow us to cut taxes on middle-class working families by $100 billion a year or $1 trillion over ten years. We could use the rest of the savings – $100 billion – to bolster the Social Security Trust Fund. By 2030, we [will have] put $3 trillion into the trust Fund, which would make it solvent into the next century.

So you Trump-haters: read this and tell me who should have REALLY been impeached:

-and all of this while betraying his oath of office by vigorously attacking Americans’ constitutionally protected free speech, religion, and right to bear arms; squeezing colleges and private companies to submit to his socialist vision; and punishing his ideological foes by using a corrupt Justice Department and FBI to hunt his enemies.

How can you respond to that, and still be fair?

Trump went from supporting all this to calling it socialism and unconstitutional saying America will never be a socialist nation. Trumps insane. Read his books watch the interviews. Someone in the Republican party must be blackmailing him. Maybe the TV preachers paid him off or he just thinks hell go down in history as a great prophet or something. The man is insane. Trump knows socialized health care will work. What’s crazy is everyone knows it’s the right thing to go to. They just don’t know how. Trump knows how to do it, but the Republican agenda buys him out. Good old status quo. Maybe the TV evangelists just got him believing that he has been born again.

I believe TV preachers got Trump believing he’s born again. It’s clear he is trying to turn America into TV preacher Christianity.

Here’s an interesting story, :crazy_face: