The Evangelical Universalist Forum

How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper


It’s nothing but ego to be a follower of Trump like you are Dave. It’s not about who’s the biggest and the baddest but compassion even on our enemies. Even if it leads to torture and death like the Apostle Paul, Jesus, and the Christian martyres went through.


If I were a BETTING man…and the tribulation and the Zombie Apocalypse occurred today…And a zombie was coming to eat Michael…and he had a loaded gun and knife near him…I would bet ANYTHING, he would either shoot the zombie in the head…or stab it in the head. :laughing:




Nope. I’m not a narcissistic sociopath like Trump and his followers. Too bad they don’t have medication for that.


Well, such pacifists are not always protected from the violence of the government authorities, and those authorities can be pretty violent—in more ways than one.

During World War 2, a Hutterite man in United States was conscripted. He refused to participate in the war because of his convictions about obedience to Jesus’ instructions to love your enemies, do good to them, etc. The police came and arrested the man and put him into prison. He died shortly afterward in prison. When the man’s wife came to get the body, she found to her horror that her dead husband was dressed in a military uniform. One of the prison authorities said to her, “He wouldn’t wear it in life; let him wear it in death.”


Very true, Don. He did the honorable thing considering his convictions. Many unjust things were done during the WWII period in the USA–shameful things. I wish I could say we’re better than that now. In some ways maybe we are, but in other ways we are worse and, I fear, approaching socialistic fascism in the vein of Mussolini and Chavez. Governments are history’s true mass murderers, hands down. One more reason I don’t trust them at all.


I wonder if we could go back in time like Germany 1928 or Russia 1920 and we had the chance to kill Hitler or Stalin and save millions of innocent lives and somehow hypothetically no one would know, do you think it would be morally right or justified?


Thank you for your response, Cindy. I won’t state the cause of the man’s death in prison, because I don’t know the cause. Nevertheless, I have a pretty strong opinion about it.


All I can say, Steve, is that if we are disciples of Christ, we would be acting contrary to His instructions. Jesus Himself never killed anyone.

What if one of Jesus’ disciples had killed Judas, so that Jesus would not have died that painful death? Would that have been morally justified?

We don’t really know what would have happened if Dietrich Bonhoeffer had succeeded in killing Hitler. For all we know, the ramifications may have been even worse. There could have been even far more deaths and suffering people. The same with Stalin. If someone had killed him, there may have arisen an even more cruel form of Communism.


This is the craziest stuff I’ve ever heard. Figuring out if we are to act in violence, through conversation??? No reasonable person ever acts violently without incredible provocation. And that means Governments as well as citizens.

Unfortunately, if you ever get there, if you have to use some kind of force, you’ll never want to return. Having to react violently to others is probably the worst experience one could have. Thus Christ’s ‘love your enemy’ dictum was both useful and provocative, as it steered humanity to a place they had never been. :wink:

Just an opinion…


To reprise an earlier post of mine, in light of the nonsense talk about guns: CLICK IT TO OPEN or you will miss the wonderfulness :laughing: No that is not Tommy Lee Jones :open_mouth:


"It should be clear that this whole preoccupation with Trump’s past sex life has nothing to do with morality and everything to do with humiliating Trump — and, thereby, hopefully weakening the Trump presidency — the raison d’etre of the media since he was elected. Here’s one proof: The media rightly celebrate, as we all do, Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. as one of the moral greats of the 20th century despite reports of his having committed adultery on numerous occasions. [I would add that he also plagiarized portions of his Boston University dissertation.]

Likewise, the media and the Left idolized Sen. Ted Kennedy, regularly referring to him as the “Lion of the Senate.” Yet Kennedy was notorious for his lechery — far more so than Trump. Typical Ted Kennedy behavior, as described in New York magazine, was when he and then-fellow Democratic Sen. Chris Dodd “participated in the famous ‘waitress sandwich’ at La Brasserie in 1985, while their dates were in the bathroom.”

John F. Kennedy remains the most revered of Democratic presidents in the modern era. Yet we now know he routinely had affairs in the White House in his wife’s absence and had the Secret Service provide him advance notice of her return.

And, by the way, if sexual infidelity invalidates the character and, therefore, the worthiness of a politician, why doesn’t it invalidate the character and worthiness of an editor at The New York Times or The Washington Post? Why aren’t their sex lives investigated? They have, after all, more influence than almost any politician." - Dennis Prager


Today, I’ve shared this on Twitter. This Map Gives You a Peek into the Dark Web I try to let folks know - what’s happening.

In addition to my normal messages, regarding the up-and-coming tribulation and the Zombie Apocalypse . Along with Peter Popoff’s, miracle spring water. :wink:


I’ll just give my two cents worth (admittedly that’s only about 1 cent US) to this pacifist discussion.

In the early fifties, I was bullied at school by a boy from a grade higher than I mine. He always had a sidekick with him to be impressed by his bullying. One day, the bully went too far and I reacted by beating him up quite badly. I am not necessarily proud of doing that, but the fact is he never bullied me again, or other kids as far as I know. That experience impressed on me that I am able to defend myself and others if and when it is necessary.

I can tell you this, with absolute certainty: if I was present when any man attempted to rape my wife or, worse, one of my young granddaughters, I would not hesitate to step up and give him the thrashing of his life. Having worked with many Hutterite colonies here in Alberta, I am absolutely certain that any Hutterite husband or grandfather would do the same thing.


Jordan Peterson’s first “rule for life”: Stand up straight with your shoulders back. (Don’t be or appear to be submissive to bullies–There’s more to it than that, but maybe I’ve at least captured a part of the essence of what Peterson had to say.)


I’ve been reading Peterson’s book and viewing him on the internet. I’m starting to see that the problem isn’t so much Trump as it is Liberal Relativism rooted in social Marxism. I still think we should love the enemy though. Peterson’s point isn’t combat but confidence.


As far as this being a pacifist conversation sorry. Christ commanded us to love the enemy. This is the very thing the Christian martyrs spilled their blood for. It’s nothing but the Christian who stands up boldly without being violent as they love the enemy.


Dave, what do you think of the fact that Trump has been firing those people in the administration who disagree with him. Doesn’t that bear the mark of a dictator?


Hi Don - since every president in memory has done much the same thing, no, I think it is just good management style. Don’t forget that there are thousands of Obama people still in the government, attempting to thwart the good that Trump wants to get done. They have got to go or nothing will change, and the chance of draining the swamp will disappear. THEN we will elect a true dictator, from the far left, and the American dream will die. I think this is our last chance so godspeed to Trump, fire away, get in some good honest folk who have guts, and do what the Constitution lays out for us.


Here in the USA, THIS is now really happening: quote:
Editor’s note: The same “progressives” who have made American higher education into indoctrination chambers for cultural Marxism, identity racism and other anti-American ideas are now targeting our K-12 public schools. For instance:

At the Edina School District in Edina, Minnesota, all employees, even bus drivers, must take “Equity and Racial Justice Training” instructing them that “dismantling white privilege” is at the core of the district’s mission. They must acknowledge their racial guilt, and embrace the district’s “equity” ideology.

To enhance “cultural diversity,” students at Maryland’s La Plata High School were ordered to copy the Islamic creed “Shahada” which states in part, “There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.” One worksheet distributed by the school states, “Most Muslims’ faith is stronger than the average Christian.”

As part of transgender instruction in Rocklin Academy in Rocklin, California, a male kindergartener was reintroduced to classmates as a girl. A first grader at the school was sent to the principal’s office after she called the student by his given name on the playground – apparently unaware that the five year old had changed gender. - end of quote

If God has decided that Trump, of all people, should be the means of pulling us back from the abyss, let it be so.