The Evangelical Universalist Forum

How To Live Under An Unqualified President by John Piper


Well, I’ll say that the context with Don had a bit to do with my reaction. Please forgive if you were offended. It was not intended.:wink:


Like I said -my bad. As I get older, I get more obscure. Soon, I’ll be so obscure as to sound wise. :slight_smile:
No problems bro.


Hey, love ya man.


Of course, Canada doesn’t need any such action. Neither does any other country need such action to keep out refugees. Rather, they should welcome people who have such deep needs.

Canada welcomed the Vietnam refugees, provided for their needs, and soon these refugees were independent and in the work force like any other Canadian. My nephews, my wife, and I formed “The Refugee Assistance Group.” My wife and I sponsored three different families (at three different times). Until they became independent again, they lived in a trailer that we bought and placed on our property for that purpose.

The church that I attend also sponsored a refugee family at the time. They lived in a house that the church purchased for that purpose.


That’s very good, Don, and I applaud you and others that do that.
I don’t think, however, that you (or us) have yet paid the price of open and free admission to anyone who wants to come in.
Have you read what has happened to Belgium? Or Germany? Netherlands? England? Would Canada be willing to lose its national identity?
Is there no room even for vetting? We already take in a million immigrants a year - more than any other country in the world, as far as I can tell from a google search. Canada took 300K (2016).
PLaces in the USA where illegal immigrants tend to live together have the highest serious crime rates. It is known that terrorist agents blend in with groups that enter illegally - they have killed and raped repeatedly. Is Canada alright with that? I don’t think so.
Prudent generosity is where it’s at.


Of course. Canada normally checks out everyone who applies for immigration. But when a large number of people have to escape their country to save their lives, there needs to be special regulations. Those people can be kept in temporary locations under supervision, and supplied with the necessities of life, until such time that each of them is able to go though the immigration process.

There is no evidence that there are terrorist agents among that large group of refugees that the U.S.A. is keeping out through use of tear gas.


It is known that there are ms13 gang members among that group. And a couple of ISIS spokemen have bragged that they have some people in there as well. Let us also not forget that the big majority of the current caravan are 20-something young men - with some women and kids up front for the photo-op. As well, it has now come out that the leaders, promotors, rabble-rousers in charge of the whole charade, lied to the regular folk about what they could expect.
The tear gas - a good alternative to possible bloodshed, imo.
None of us are happy about the number of killings, rapes etc. that illegal immigrants have committed in this country. Letting in one terrorist more - might be the one that kills my wife, or someone’s wife or kids.
And the vetting ain’t easy, as we’ve learned - contacting the countries from which the illegal immigrants are coming is almost useless, since those countries are corrupt, record keeping is atrocious, and the leaders lie to us anyway.
It’s difficult being prudent and caring at the same time. If we give the message "come to the USA and our taxpayers will pay to house you and your families, feed you, provide healthcare, for as long as it takes to get clearance - well then, it is almost the same as saying to those that are here already, going through the citizenship process for years, patiently waiting for something they have earned - you did all that in vain. We’ll do more for those that rush our borders en masse, demanding that we care for them and give them benefits. Not fair.
And the assimilation problem is a big one. Most of the incoming illegals don’t want to assimilate, they want to bring their culture here. Europe is being transformed, and not to the European’s benefit, by, especially, Muslims who increasingly take over villages, cities and sometimes government offices, and want to change their new environments into Muslim culture.


As to “record keeping” Dave… in the last year, what might the US statistics be for Americans in America being shot up and killed by a terrorist — as opposed to Americans in America being shot up and killed by your fellow citizens? Is there a comparison?


Assimilation! Yes, that’s United States. You gotta get assimilated.
Canada is known as a patchwork country. People from various ethnic backgrounds tend to live in particular areas. There are large areas that are almost exclusively aboriginal. In Manitoba, even towns tend toward a predominant ethnic group. For example, the people of Steinbach, Altona, and Winkler are predominantly of Mennonite background. The people of Beausejour, Lac du Bonnet, and Ste. Anne are predominantly of French background.


Ouch! that’s a real zinger, davo.
What the hell difference does it make to YOU? Fortunately, our people are on the job and have foiled a great number of terrorist plots, which perhaps you have not heard about?
Taking shots at the USA - its a terrible place I guess, compared to the garden of eden of the rest of the world, and yet so much of the world wants to live here. I don’t get it, dude.
Are you suggesting unfettered immigration will help us solve our problems?


That’s awesome that you helped those people, However there are 180 million people in the Western Hemisphere that want to come here and i’m guessing another 300 million from Africa at least, if they could. This would impoverish the USA , putting aside safety for the moment. So if you let in one caravan then you really have no reason not to let in everyone! That’s not realistic or fair to the citizens of America who have a right to self determination and a right to have a sovereign nation. When you say Canada did this or that please consider he number of people you are referring to is a few thousand compared to the millions of migrants we already have now.


Tear gas is a minimal response which Obama used dozens of times and is known to be a safe response , even though our media likes to portray it as gassing. BTW Paidion you may be pleased to know that although the caravan has mostly been kept out, many small groups of migrants are still getting in. Just ask California where 70% end up on govt assistance programs.

BTW Australia has pretty strict immigration laws as I understand it.


Ouch! That’s YOUR reaction to my question? I can understand you maybe not liking a mirror being held up; it’s amazing however you refuse to acknowledge that… “taking shots at the USA” OVERWHELMINGLY occurs from your own fellow citizens, as opposed to being committed by anyone else — and yet your right to bear arms against each other, well… eerie silence.

Yes we do… and it is shameful and embarrassing. Ever since the actual terrorists of 9/11 struck our then conservative government hyped and milked the fear-factor of that evil tragedy for all it was worth to their own political ends.

It was at that time when the government changed their language from refugees seeking asylum TO illegal arrivals trying to take over… and of course all our rednecks lapped it up — most disappointing.


Don’t be an idiot. We are aware of our problems, we LIVE with them.
So - completely open borders is your advice, to help us with our problems?


I usually don’t get political, but you guys are crazy if you think we should open the borders. Not just crazy, but likely living under some idealistic notion that everyone is a good person. I cant stand the arrogance of Canadians. Must be nice not to have any need of military, as you know you can come sniveling to the US for aid.Luckily no one wants that tundra laced land called Canada, so you likely wouldn’t be invaded anyway. So I say, let’s send all the refugees to you guys. I mean, Canada should raise their taxes and spend all their money on getting some cruise ships down there to haul them all up in your country, then pay to feed them indefinitely until such time they can be checked out properly. If Canada did that, I’d concede they are superior nation. Unfortunately, they are hiding behind an American curtain, while taking shots at it.


I’ve made no mention of “borders” at all…


I know, that’s why I was asking.
But otoh, a few facts:
Cesar Chavez - Hispanic hero of the Left - hated illegal immigration. He led a march against illegal immigrant workers in 1969, along with Walter Mondale and a close aide to Dr. King. In 1979 he sent armed union guys into the desert to beat illegal border crossers. Scabs had their houses firebombed, with Chavez’s permission. Clinton called for a national holiday, a college was named after him, lots of schools bear his name as well. Oh how the Left has changed.

Until recently, most Democrat leaders also opposed illegal immigration. Fact. Why? Among other reasons, the 1980 mass migration of refugees drove down blue-collar wages in Miami by 30%.
In 1975, California governor Jerry "Moonbeam’ Brown OPPOSED refugees from VietNam, saying it was silly to let in 500,000 refugees when California had a million unemployed citizens at the time.
Oh how the Left has changed.
Joe Biden agreed, and entered legislation to curb the arrival of those refugees. Oh how Joe has changed.
Or this:

Or that American progressive hero, Bill Clinton:
Bill Clinton Immigration Speech 1995
All Americans, not only in the states most heavily affected but in every place in this country, are rightly disturbed by the large numbers of illegal aliens entering our country.
The jobs they hold might otherwise be held by citizens or legal immigrants.
The public service they use impose burdens on our taxpayers.
That’s why our administration has moved aggressively to secure our borders more by hiring a record number of new border guards, by deporting twice as many criminal aliens as ever before, by cracking down on illegal hiring, by barring welfare benefits to illegal aliens.
In the budget I will present to you. We will try to do more to speed the deportation of illegal aliens who are arrested for crimes. To better identify illegal aliens in the workplace. As recommended by the commission headed by former Congresswoman Barbara Jordan.
We are a nation of immigrants. But we are also a nation of laws.
It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years. And we must do more to stop it.
Hillary, Schumer, and Obama all voted for a FENCE on the Mexican border

NO DEMOCRAT would accept those things NOW. None.
Now - there are at least 22 million illegal immigrants in America (Yale Study), and most vote Democratic. Could that possibly be why the Democrats have so hypocritically decided to throw the middle class, and the LEGAL immigrants, under the bus?
There’s more - a 5 minute video lays it out:

Did you get that 22 million number? A little more or less - probably more.
So yes we are sensitive when we are criticized.


Well I can’t speak to your ‘royal we’ Dave… but with your own sensitivities pricked YOU sure got testy having had your rank hypocrisy held in front of you when called on demonizing as “terrorists” those who you say kill your kindred — and yet these prove more to be of your own and not foreign terrorists.

So, you have something in common…


What’s Donald Trump’s stance…on me leading the zombies, into the US?

“If at first you don’t succeed, then skydiving definitely isn’t for you.”-- Steven Wright


Re-kill all of them plus their babies and pets, because that’s what haters do.
Much safer for you would be Canada or Australia.
You look great on that bike, RKOZ!