OK well this is why I said I am pigheaded. I simply refuse to accept ANY IDEOLOGY whatsoever that entails any form of eternal separation from ANYONE we knew and loved on earth in this lifetime. PERIOD. This is just COMPLETELY unacceptable to me. People can try to throw at me all the EH or Annihilation views in my face, but it all boils down to this. It may look too stubborn, or it may appear to be solely based on emotion (vs. “logic” - though how could ECT or Annihilation truly be logic). But I’ve HAD it with eternal-separation ideologies. I’m TIRED of it. It is a TRAUMATIC ideology at BEST.
Love you, Lady!
Sonia
Count me among the pigs! (or at least their heads)
But it’s much more than being stubborn. It makes sense, and anything less desecrates the character of God (who is total LOVE).
Well the ECT’ers would probably come back with a line like this -
“Eternal separation from God is infinitely worse than any eternal separation from someone on earth…”
OK…we all need a comeback line for this one…
for as in Adam All die and in Christ All will be made Alive 
What do you think about this parallelism above if ECTers are always throwing Matthew 25:46?
oh and the Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached in the World, then the End will come
Remember the Sermon on the Mount? How Jesus tells us to love our enemies so that we will be LIKE OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN? Or 1 Cor 13, where we learn that love never fails . . . and 1 John, in which the apostle tells us what the all doubtless had heard again and again; that God is love? His mercies endure forever, and His mercy doesn’t look like a thing we ourselves would call cruelty or wrong.
For most people a “comeback line” doesn’t satisfy, but your instinctive refusal to believe that you are more merciful and more loving than God is absolutely correct. Start where you are. Don’t leave it there though; do study to show yourself approved, etc. A year or two of serious study and you will be able to discuss this and hold your own with anyone you’re likely to have the opportunity to discuss it with. One day you’ll be ready to answer to anyone and everyone if you keep seeking Him diligently. You may not be able to persuade them of God’s unsearchable love, but that will only be because some folks are just that hard of understanding.
You go, girl!
I totally agree, Lady Bug!
Campolo, Bart (xxxx-), pastor, writer and speaker, son of Tony Campolo, and founder of Mission Year:
‘I may be wrong in this matter, but I am not in doubt. If indeed faith is being sure of what we hope for, then truly I am a man of faith, for I absolutely know what I hope to be true: that God is completely good, entirely loving, and perfectly forgiving, that God is doing everything possible to overcome evil (which is evidently a long and difficult task), and that God will utterly triumph in the end, despite any and all indications to the contrary. This is my first article of faith. I required no Bible to determine it, and—honestly—I will either interpret away or ignore altogether any Bible verse that suggests otherwise’ (The Limits of God’s Grace).
nice!
oh, i forgot to add in my previous post:
oink oink
An anni could hold this, since it would entail annihilation, but no ECT can consistently hold this and also supernaturalistic theism (much moreso trinitarian theism): it denies God’s omnipresence and omniscience. It also denies that God continues acting to keep things in existence, and presents instead a reality where something can exist independently of God (or dependently on something ultimately other than God).
So tell ECTs you’re a Christian, not some pagan or dualist, as a comeback line for this one. 
win!
Wow, I didn’t even think of that Jason, and I should have done. Thanks!!
I normally come back with a positive affirmation like:
Like it says in scripture, I really believe that one day Every knee shall bow and Every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord.
Like it says in scripture, I believe that Jesus came to save the world, the whole world, and that Jesus does not fail to save anyone.
Like is says in scripture, I believe that Jesus came to reconcile all of creation, every thing in heaven, earth, and under the earth; and I believe Jesus fulfills his mission of reconciling everything!
Like it says in scripture, I believe that Jesus is the savior of all, not just some, and that this title is not an exageration, but is the truth. Jesus is savior of all because he saves all.
I believe that the atonement is not limited in scope or in effect, but that Jesus died to redeem everyone and that the power of the cross ultimately reconciles us all, like scripture says.
I like to through in the “like scripture says” as often as I can. It really messes with evangelicals to imply that they are not believing scripture when they do not believe that every knee shall bow!
I’m at my wits end. My Bible-study partner came all prepared with this so-called document against Universalism. I don’t care what her intentions are, it is ridiculously and obnoxiously offensive. I swear to God these people are on the warpath before you even want to bring up anything to them. They come prepared against you. I can’t match up against her arguments so luckily we will go to a new topic. To be honest, I won’t miss her if I never spoke to her again. I don’t feel like hanging out with her. She didn’t start out as a friend but as a Bible-study partner. Even if she likes me as a person I want out.
Maybe it’s time to get out of that study? You don’t need to feel bad about it.
Sonia
even though we’re moving to a new topic?
I dread the day she starts bringing up the “prophetess” Ellen White…no thanks.
Can’t anyone see how wrong it is for someone to try to convince me of eternal separation from whoever I love, on earth? (you guys do, I’m sort of “shouting to the world” on this one)
OK she isn’t explicitly trying to convince me of that but the end result is the same
Do pray about it, and ask the Lord to lead you in this. If it seems to you that He wants you to continue, that’s fine, but if He’s telling you not to, then you needn’t feel bad about stopping. In any case, don’t let someone else decide for you what you ought to do, or guilt you into doing what you don’t want to do. I’m getting the impression that you’re particularly uncomfortable with the study, and while that is not necessarily a reason to quit something, it could be an indicator that it’s not the best thing for you to be doing right now.
But what do I know? Ask the Lord for His guidance, and do what he says.
Sonia
Lady,
Does she understand and at least sympathize with your feelings on this matter, even though she thinks some kind of hopeless punishment is true anyway?
Under the circumstances, I’d say that’s a key issue here. Truth is admittedly more important than our feelings, but truth and love are equally important (if trinitarian theism is true! ) and she ought to be able to respect that your love is conflicting with what she thinks is true. If she can’t respect that, especially since there are Biblical reasons she ought to be well aware of to respect love (and especially “saving love”) for non-Christians (since it was only by such saving love that she ever became a Christian at all herself), then I recommend you dust her off and go somewhere else.
Because you’ll have a conflict between you much deeper than any detail of technical doctrinal difference, and that conflict won’t be your fault. If she’s acting against the very thing by which she herself is saved, that’s going to poison everything she’s doing, even if she happens to be correct about facts.
On the other hand, approaching the matter from this direction might help heal the division between you, even if you still disagree on the scope and competency of saving love, with one of you denying the Lord saves or the Lord is salvation. (i.e. denying the name of “Jesus”. )
Meanwhile if you want to post her sheets against Kath and in favor of Anni around here, feel free to do so. We’re a source of resources ourselves, you know. 