The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Ian's Sex Video.

Thank you. I’ll check it out. :smiley:

They measure it and it mathematically behaves irrationally. In the example, they found the ‘ball’ outside the cup and it left impressions of how it swooped; whereas when observed it just dropped into the cup. Most of all this is proven by mathematics and evidence left through impressions or radiation or thousand of other signs that something happened but nobody observed it happening.

Let me see if I have this right. :wink: :

They’ve done numerous experiments where every time they watch a particle, if we take it’s start point as ‘A’ it always moves to the same destination: ‘point B’. As soon as they don’t watch, and check afterwards, the particle has moved from point ‘A’ to an unexpected point ‘C’?

This leads me to conclude that our thoughts are causing the particle to move to where we expect it to move. Our thoughts must be generating enough ‘energy’ or whatever, to affect the particle. Maybe that is why Jesus puts so much emphasis on our thoughts. :question:

This is absolutely fascinating, but unfortunately I can only understand a bit of it. :wink:

Yes, both thoughts and words are very powerful. I have come across a number of illustrative examples over the years.
Have you ever noticed that when someone else makes a food item, it tastes better than when you make it; even if you use the exact same recipe or ingredients? I personally think this has to do with the energy of the person observing the process.

Today I went to work and said, “I haven’t gotten in trouble for a while, I feel that today I will have issues at work.” and guess what!? I had an issue at work. It is either a) I had a premonition or b) My thoughts manifest themselves.

My friend Jason was talking about how he was interviewing a woman for a position in his company. She had worked for road construction holding the ‘stop’ or ‘slow’ sign. After being hit by a car 26 times, she thought it was time to leave and go to something new. After some interview with that question, Jason asked, what she was thinking every day that she was hit and she replied that everyday she was hit by a car, she was thinking when will she be hit by a car. Her thoughts manifest reality.

Yes, I have noticed that. I’ve also noticed that when I’m thinking of someone who I haven’t seen for a long time, they phone me. It could be coincidence, but it makes you wonder… :wink:

I can see how our thoughts ‘affect’ our actions and therefore outcomes, but that is different surely, to what is affecting the particles, if indeed anything is affecting them?

Are you sure about that?

Read a previous article on this forum I posted.

No, I’m not sure… :confused: I don’t understand what you’re explaining on the other forum. Sorry.

Let’s see if I have understood any of this:

thoughts are a kind of reality, or potential reality. You can think something that then becomes a reality -like the woman who expected to be knocked down and so was knocked down. Her own thoughts were affecting her, but would my thoughts be able to affect her? If I knew she thought this way, and so observed her at the side of the road, and willed her not to get knocked over, would that affect reality? Wouldn’t her own thoughts be dominant over mine? Then again, if she is aware that I’m watching her then maybe her own thoughts would change and then she wouldn’t get knocked over…

Going to the particle now- if it always behaves irraticly, when not observed, isn’t that how it should behave? If the particle is only affected by ‘forces’ in its surroundings, then it will go wherever the forces lead it to go. If an additional force ie someone’s thoughts are added, then it seems the energy from our thoughts is stronger than the other ones, and therefore we can ‘lead’ it to where we think it ought to go? Don’t laugh if I’ve completely got this all wrong. I struggle with things like this. :confused:

Everyone’s thoughts affect each other, but to answer in a nutshell, yes. We have power to give life to everything we see, touch and think, that life given to that thing, is a spirit. That is what is what a spirit is, and that is what spirits do. So be careful what you give life to.

Essentially you got it. It is called the Observer Effect.

This makes real sense to why Jesus stressed our thoughts, in relation to actions.

So would you say the ‘demons’ that alledgely possed people were really their thoughts (caused by illnesses) that made these characters real in their minds? This would make sense of why Jesus addressed them as ‘persons’.

So ‘spirit’ is energy really. I always think of the Holy Spirit as God’s energy- His thoughts going out and getting things done?? Because they are His thoughts, it makes sense to personify the Spirit.

Essentially you got it. It is called the Observer Effect.

Phew. :stuck_out_tongue:

Yes, that is why Jesus stressed our thoughts in relation to our actions.

Thanks Catherine for making the effort to understand what I have come to believe, and I appreciate it really.

Demons are spirits that manifest themselves, because they are spirits. Jesus could talk to a spirit in the same way He could command any other living thing, but a living thing does not make them a person.

We also need to know the difference between what a Pharisee thought a demon was, and what Jesus knew a demon was. The Pharisee had the Babylonian understanding of demons, mythical beings of evil in a hierarchy of powers. Jesus knew demons to be thoughts that consume a man from the inside and then manifest themselves outwardly.

Jesus said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil reasoning’s come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

So how is it that demons can be ‘cast out’ into pigs? They are spirits, they are not just thoughts, they are living thoughts.

Jesus called the Pharisee, Sadducee and Temple Lawyers, demons and devils themselves, because their actions gave life to many evils that plagued the people of Israel and prevented them from seeing God.

The principle of spirits is the same, you can conjure up evil or you can conjure up good and apply them to your life. As you said, Jesus said be careful where you place your thoughts. For where you treasure is, your heart is also.

This is a fascinating subject, more so because I’ve recently been discussing the reality of ‘devils’ and ‘demons’ on another thread. From what I’ve been learning, ‘demons’ are not fallen angels or false gods and so what you propose makes sense of why demons are understood to be like persons. I’m struggling to follow you with regard to ‘spirits’ being ‘living thoughts’. I agree that thoughts exist and have energy. We saw this demonstarted with the particles- but once the particles have done their thing, and our thoughts cease to think about the particles, wouldn’t those energies or spirits that moved the particles, break up and no longer exist? Maybe the energy is absorbed into its surroundings, but the ‘balls of energy’ that were moving the particles, are no longer in existence. Do we agree with that?

If we take the demons that Jesus cast into the pigs, I’m struggling to see how the man’s thoughts could affect the pigs…unless, the ‘balls of energy’ ie thoughts were transfered from the man into the pigs, and hence like a pin ball machine where the ball is going all over the place, these balls of energy were let lose in an incompatible place for them to exist anymore, and so the pigs’ brains malfunctioned. Hmmm, that makes sense. I would then assume that these balls of energy, or living thoughts, would then break down and be absorbed into the energy around them…which causes a problem for the demons that re-enter a person after roaming around: Luke 11:24. Are you of the opinion that these ‘spirits’ can exist independantly of their ‘creator’ once the ‘creator’ no longer acknowledges these thoughts? This may well be possible from a physics point of view. Maybe that energy in the form of thoughts i.e ‘spirit’, does continue to exist and wanders on its merry way maybe until it bumps into something that breaks it down?? Or maybe depending on how ‘great’ the spirit is (the more you focus on a spirit, the more energy you give to it, making it more powerful maybe??) the longer it can exist ‘on its own’. I don’t quite understand Jesus’ language regarding these ‘demons’. These ‘spirits’ are surely not able to reason, like in His example. If Jesus had worded it more like this: '‘And then when a man is clean, he may remember former temptations and those demons then re-enter the man’. Maybe he is wording it His way, so that the people will understand Him. They did believe these ‘demons’ were personal beings, not just energies created by the person.

Quantum physics seems to ‘prove’ that thoughts become real and travel and affect other things, and so there must be some truth to what you are saying. I’m now worrying about my own thoughts- those hateful thoughts I may have directed towards someone in the past. I hope they’re not still in existence and affecting the person I directed them towards. Last night, just before I fell asleep, I was thinking about this and I prayed that any evil thoughts/spirits I had created towards people, would be gone and no longer doing any damage, if that is what they are able to do?? :cry:

Well I know that Quantum and Spiritual conversations don’t always go hand in hand.

I can share my thoughts later in a different thread if you wish about what spirits are (demons, etc.).

Yes please. :wink: