Um-hmm okay, I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here Cole. I’m truly not.
NR, there is no indication in the text that Jesus forgave them. Nor is there any indication that God’s forgiveness of them was immediate.
Peter assigned responsibility to the whole house of Israel for crucifying Christ:
Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified." (Acts 2:36)
Those who heard Jesus’ words were convicted in their hearts of murdering Jesus:
Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “brethren, what shall we do?” (Acts 2:37)
Peter then instructed them as to how to get right with God and receive the enabling grace of God to deliver them from sin:
…and Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forsaking of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the holy spirit. (Acts 2:38)
Most translators render the word “aphiemi” in verse 38 as “forgiveness”. In any case, it is my belief that when they repented in response to Peter’s message, they received forgiveness from the Father in response to Jesus’ prayer.
Thank you Michael for this quote. I had never read that before. It’s exactly what I believe—except the final sentence. For God won’t forgive him either until he repents.
Michael, I hope you take Pink’s word to heart to let go of your ill feelings for your father.
Paidion,
I have no feelings of love for my Father. When he dies I will not be there. I will not cry. Unless of course he repents and we can get together. I have no love for him. I hate him in the sense of a dislike. Like I hate dark chocolate. I stay away from it. I’m not raging and bitter though.
Hi Cindy.
You have great points and insights. I agree with you, in my personal experience you can never have peace within and God , until you are willing to let go of the animosity and hatred in the heart. In extreme situations the best possible solution is to remove yourself from the culprit . Then you can have peace, and healing. It starts the process of releasing the toxic emotions.
I don’t want anyone to misunderstand that forgiving from the heart can take the form of leaving the cycle of abusive relationships.
Cindy, here is an article I wrote about 5 years ago with regards to George MacDonald’s “It shall not be forgiven”:
I think consider a correct understanding of forgiveness to be paramount in our practice of Christian virtue. True forgiveness is impossible without repentance on the part of the offender. Something other than true forgiveness, but which has been labeled as “forgiveness” IS possible without his repentance. Unconditional forgiveness in the true sense of the word is impossible. Something other than true forgiveness, a devalued form of forgiveness, but which nevertheless has been labeled as “forgiveness,” IS possible to exercise unconditionally.
George MacDonald understood this, and taught it in his essay “It shall not be forgiven.”
The Greek verb which is translated as “forgive” in the New Testament is “ἀφιημι” (aph i ā mi) .This verb has been formed by combining the preposition “ἀπο” (from) with the verb “ἱημι” (to send). Thus the original and primary meaning of “ἀφιημι” is “to send from” or “to send away” or “to depart from” or “to leave”. However, as we all know, words in virtually any language begin to change their meanings slightly, depending upon how they are applied. Sometimes the meaning can change so drastically, that it is difficult to see the connection to the original meaning. Perhaps the English word “gay” is one such word.
The verb “ἀφιημι” is used in the New Testament in several senses. Depending upon the context, it has been translated as:
- depart
- allow
- neglect
- abandon
- disregard
- forgive
In discussing forgiveness, GMD fixed on one of the original meanings of “ἀφιημι”, namely, “to send away”, and tried to incorporate it into the meaning of “forgive”.
GMD understood the actions and attitudes of people who use the word “forgive” in a way which is a far cry from the way Jesus and the apostles used it. This is clear in writing “It shall not be forgiven” (the 4th article in Unspoken Sermons I.) He understood that some people use the word “forgive” as merely letting go of any requirement that the man be punished. This kind of “forgiveness” can be exercised without any kind of repentance on the offender’s part, nor any form of reconciliation with the offender.
But there is no sending away of the wrong itself from between them.
If the offended person never wants to encounter the “forgiven” person again, then there has been no true forgiveness. All he means by “I forgive” is “I’m not going to make him pay.” In other words, he’s not going to get revenge on the offender or require restitution. Such “forgiveness” requires no repentance on the part of the offender nor any reconciliation.
Here, again, there is no sending away of the wrong from between them — no remission of the sin.
In this case, the offended person imagines that he forgives the offender because he ignores him and his sin — a far cry from true forgiveness! Again such “forgiveness” requires no repentance on the part of the offender nor any reconciliation.
GMD makes it clear that it is not possible to forgive an unrepentant person, for the offender shuts out the one who wishes help him face his sin, so that forgiveness is impossible. If I, as the offended one, desires to forgive if unrepentant offender, and he does not repent, then I need to help him.
If the man is unrepentant, then of course, I “cannot feel the same toward him.” Indeed, he might repeat his offence. Why should he not if he is of the same mindset? Unfortunately, the word “repent” has been devalued about as much as the word “forgive”. To most people it means “to regret” or “feel sorry for”. The Greek word literally means “to change one’s mind.” I like to add “heart” to that. “to have a change of heart and mind.” Only when an offender has a change of heart and mind, is it possible to forgive him. Only then can I “feel the same toward him”, that is the same as I did before he offended. After his repentance and my forgiveness, then relations between us are just as if he had never sinned.
I recall the situation from the writing of a Jewish rabbi in the Reader’s Digest, which I shared about the people of the town declaring their “forgiveness” to unrepentant Joey who had raped young girls. They erected a sign, “WE FORGIVE YOU, JOEY!” The author of the article asked the question, “What message did that sign give to Joey?” Did it not tell him that the town people didn’t really mind what had done? That he could with impunity, repeat his crime? GMD wrote that if God were to declare his forgiveness to a hateful man, unrepentant of his hate, this action would have similar ramifications:
I think that in the last sentence GMD is using the word “forgave” in the devalued sense of “overlooked.” He cannot mean that God never forgives sin in the true sense of “forgive” since the bible contains many references to God forgiving sin.
Finally, GMD clearly taught that it is impossible to forgive an unrepentant man:
So if a man is unrepentant, impenitent, he cannot yield to God’s discipline while he is in that state. Indeed, he cannot yield to God in any way; “no contact of hearts is possible”. For that reason, it is impossible for God to forgive him while he is in that state. A reconciliation is impossible.
Again, Jesus urged forgiveness upon repentance.
“…and if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.” (Luke 17:4)
If repentance were unnecessary for forgiveness, then why did Jesus include it in this saying?
In conclusion, I wish to say why I believe it so important to understand the true meaning of forgiveness. It is Jesus’ statement that unless we forgive others their trespasses, God will not forgive us. I don’t think Jesus was speaking of easy forgiveness here. There are many people who will not forgive in the true sense of forgiveness, even is an offender repents, or even if he repents and asks forgiveness. Such people have sinned grievously, and need forgiveness themselves. But if they will not even acknowledge their sin, let alone repent of it, it is impossible for God to forgiven them.
Cole–
I don’t think this is really an abstract debate. It’s about how you feel about your Dad. From what you’ve said he obviously treated you with appalling neglect and contempt and did everything he could to undermine your sense of self worth, TI;s good that you’ve placed clear water between the two of you, and made another and better life. I do think that resentment and outraged self esteem have a clear place in the scheme of things – to protect us from further abuse. I’m not going to judge you for what your feel about our Dad – and I don’t feel that God will necessarily do so.
I think that forgiveness is a process – Jesus by forgiving the mob on the cross was inaugurating a process rather than letting them (us too/?) off. I think your feelings towards your Father are there to protect you; I honestly think that resentment as long as it sin t taken to excess is protective. I would only think you wrong if you suggest that we build a theology from this point. The message of the Gospel is one of hope – and for Universalists the hope is universal. Forgiveness has it’s time and seasons.
Dick,
Resentment is a strong term. I don’t resent him. I just dislike him. Hate comes in different degrees and intensities. I hate T.V. dinners. But I hate strip clubs even more. So, I stay away from them. My dad is an alcoholic who is abusive. So, I stay way from him. Granted, the norm of the Christian ethic is to love our neighbor. But there are exceptions. For Eccl 3 tells us there is a time to love and a time to hate. A time for peace and a time for war. There is a time and a season for everything.
Thanks for sharing you excellent article, Paidion. I had to read and re-read many sections of GMD’s sermon, so I very much appreciate your commentary on it. As he says at the beginning, many people (he singles out children and women, which coincides with my experience) fear they’ve committed the unforgivable sin Jesus warned the Pharisees about. Because of this, it’s important to have a functional understanding of just WHAT the “unforgivable sin” IS. This sermon makes the most compelling sense of it I’ve ever seen, and your article helps a great deal.
Where you say:
The way I took that was that God doesn’t forgive the SIN – that is, He will never accept the sin. He forgives the sinner who has forsaken the sin, but the sin itself must be destroyed. What do you think?
**Lk 23:34 **“Father, FORGIVE THEM, for they do not know what they do.” – looks like some here are extremely confident the Father summarily ignored the entreaty of the Son with regards to said forgiveness… big call IMO. 
The reality is… it is “repentance” that enables one to GRASP receive λαμβἁνω] the forgiveness ALREADY in place Acts 10:43; Lk 1:77; Mt 1:21]. IOW… repentance places one in the position of grasping the fuller benefits of that which has ALREADY been established, i.e., “the peace that passeth all understanding” which is the consequence of Jesus’ “***My peace I give to you; *not as the world gives do I give to you.”
In the bigger picture ‘forgiveness’ is the UNILATERAL act of God… the more who grasp this reality apart from the hoops of religiosity the better. On the horizontal level… where reparations are due then repentance can certain furnish this, BUT to restrict the giving or offering of forgiveness to conditionality is nothing by rank hypocrisy IMO… good ole “works salvation/restoration” – not worth the judgemental gaze down the crooked snout.
Davo,
Just found this by John Piper:
‘Resentment’ in discussions of forgiveness generally means feelings on the negative spectrum - from mild to intense. That’s how I was using it -resentment literally means ‘to feel backwards’. I was trying to be understanding Cole - and I stand by what I said above.
Davo
You are SO right! I’m afraid Paidion - sincere and good man that he is - profoundly misunderstands and misrepresents God’s forgiveness, and he equally profoundly misunderstands and misrepresents George MacDonald’s presentation of it.
Conditional forgiveness is like conditional grace - easy, and not worth much; “not worth the judgemental gaze down the crooked snout” (love that expression 
). Jesus is God, hence God forgave those who nailed him to the cross while they were doing it. Here’s what GMac says about that forgiveness (my emphases):
You’re spot on, Davo, in reiterating what GMac is saying here: God forgives us, and his forgiveness facilitates - enables, catalyses, generates, call it what you will - our subsequent repentance. The forgiveness is a done deal, regardless of how we react to it - and it was a done deal before we were born, “from the foundation of the earth”, in fact, when Christ the Lamb of God was slain for our salvation.
Paidion is right that full reconciliation cannot take place until the sinner repents. But that’s another matter entirely.
All the best
Johnny
Paidion
I respect your sincere view of divine forgiveness. But I’m afraid the evidence of Scripture, as Davo has shown, proves you wrong. The problem, I think, is mainly one of semantics. You say that reconciliation and a restored relationship are an essential component of ‘true forgiveness’. But the Biblical atonement narrative simply doesn’t back this up. Christ died for us - and in doing so forgave us, and opened the way to full reconciliation with the Father for us - while we were still sinners. Repentance comes after belief, after we understand and acknowledge the forgiveness we already have - always have had - in Christ.
You’re quite right that we are commanded to forgive those who come to us and say they’re sorry, who repent, and to do so time without number. But this injunction to forgive a repentant sinner does not simultaneously exonerate us from having to forgive an unrepentant sinner. As I have acknowledged, full reconciliation and the restoration of our relationship with the sinner cannot take place until he repents. But we can kick start that repentance with our forgiveness. And crucially, it has no bearing on the fact that God has already forgiven us our sins.
I hope I’ve explained myself clearly. Would be interested to hear your thoughts.
All the best
Johnny
So Johnny, how does this forgiveness without repentance benefit us. In what way would the world be differenent for the unrepentant sinner if he were not forgiven?
Take a human example. How are things better for an unrepentant offender who has sinned against you if you forgive him? And what does that forgiveness mean? That you overlook his sin, and don’t hold him responsible for it? As I see it, such “forgiveness” will encourage him to continue to offend with impunity. It would be better for him if it were not granted.
I see your point, Johnny. It seems to me though that this is mostly just a matter of Paidion choosing to call his refusal to bear ill will, resentment, etc. (whatever he would like to call it) against someone who’s sinned against him – choosing to call that something other than forgiving that person. Unless I mistake him, he prefers to reserve the term “forgive” for a full restoration of the relationship, which you also seem to agree can’t occur until true repentance on the offender’s part responds to the forgiveness that’s always available.
I think if I were to try to put this into words (which I suppose I’m about to try to do after all 
), I’d say that I would immediately (I hope) offer my forgiveness to a person who had hurt me – that is to say, I’d offer it in my heart – he himself may not welcome my offer of forgiveness as that would imply he had done wrong. The offer is there; the forgiveness is there. From my end, I’ve done all I can do until the offender makes his move to receive what I make available to him. If this hypothetical person should come to me five years from now in a state of genuine repentance and beg me to forgive him, I would say (truthfully, as far as I’m able to understand it), “You’re already forgiven. I forgave you as soon as you did the thing.” Still, in order for the act to become complete – to do him any good – he did have to respond. Otherwise, it only potentially helped him, though it probably did a great deal toward helping me.
Fully agree with you.
I had always been taught from a very early age to forgive, if the othe guy who had made me angry or thrown me to the floor would come along and say sorry, FIRST!
It took me some time to realise I had got the whole thing about foregiveness upside down.
And it is surprising how God helps.
Not so long ago I was badly let down by a close friend. Now I am fortunately not in the habit of getting angry. But I was very angry with my friend!. Some nights later the anger boiled within me and I could not sleep. And I prayed with this anger eating away inside, “…Our Father in Heaven…forgive us our trespasses, as we…” and stopped. I could not go on with the familiar words. So I started all over again, and once more came to a halt. I tried a third time. No again! And it then dawned on me why I could not continue. Although my friend had shown no signs of apology, I must forgive, truly forgive. Help! I started again and sailed through. It was a rare revealing moment. Why had I stopped, unable to continue. Well, I thought, God sure helps in mysterious ways. 
And, awake the next morning, the anger had completely gone away. I felt totally freed from any anger towards my friend or for what he had done. And a few weeks later there was an apology and settlememt over the issue.
Michael in BCN
Hi Don (and other posters here for this relates to them all and to Michael’s previous post) –
This seems more about clear and almost criminal offences However, the people who have done the worst things to me in my life things that have affected me most deeply, have not been criminals in any way. They’ve been people I have loved (or at least held in very high esteem) who have ‘betrayed’ me at a deep level.
However, I’ve always found that on reflection and with the process of time, that I was never completely guiltless. OK I can think of three cases in my life when I was treated really badly – but in each of these cases none of it was done with malice afore thought as it were, and in some ways I’d been foolish for not walking away from situations which had already become untenable. And if I’m really honest my treatment of others has by no means always met the highest standards (through ignorance and weakness rather than from malice and deliberate fault). And I think most people are involved in forgiveness in the grey area in just the sense I am describing here from my own experience.