The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Intelligent discussion re: trinity


Two guys who differ in their opinions having a thoughtful exchange. Dale Tuggy is the Christian unitarian, Prof. Bowman is a well-known and published Trinitarian. They get down to bedrock here, both are very aware of the other’s position and reasoning behind the position, and the sparring is good-natured and constructive. … es-part-2/


I did not want to start a new thread so I’ll tack on to this one.
Reading Luke 4 just now and noticed something I hadn’t previously:

“And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit…”

That seems like a very odd thing to write, unless Jesus was in fact a fully human being.
If he was a two-natured being, fully God and fully man, why would he need to be filled with the spirit?
Just another of those nagging questions that keep me from committing to Chalcedonian, etc, trinitarianism. Just can’t buy it.


It’s probably more a descriptive phrase indicative of the obvious presence of God in one’s life… take for example the eight disciples of the early church of whom the same phrase was also used — Stephen, Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, Nicolas, and Barnabas.


Yep, that was kinda my point - other men had the same thing said of them. I would not go so far as to say this is conclusive evidence that Jesus was/IS a man - but it’s another indicator that he was not an odd mixture of divinity/humanity in whatever proportions (I know that the ‘mixture’ concept is not strictly trin teaching, at least the more sophisticated trins).


DaveB and Davo, how do you explain Jesus’s “I am” statements in John?


I’ll pass but only because we have other threads where this has been answered. :slight_smile:
For the nonce, here’s a link to 100 articles m/l that are full of great information on the subject.
I give the link because it’s too much work to reproduce them in my own words, y’know?
Happy Thanksgiving Qaz!!


You too, friend.


My understanding is that in Phil 2.7 “he emptied himself” of his divine attributes so i think he was simply human during his ministry on earth & it says that he conducted his powers through the power of the Holy Spirit (perhaps in Acts). To quote Al Gore, Jesus put his divine power in a Lockbox while he was on earth as a man, IMHO. Happy Thanksgiving to you and everyone!


And to you too, Steve!

Here is an article that explains the passage in depth, and shows you to be irretrievably heretical, doomed, in most grievous error, and beyond totally depraved. (whatever that would be). I exaggerate :slight_smile:
But worth reading:


Thanks Dave, My wife always tells me i’m depraved so now it’s confirmed! Good article & food for thought & how appropriate on Thanksgiving! I really “gobbled” up this article.


You just HAD to say it, didn’t you? :rofl: