The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Intelligent discussion re: trinity

For some reason this verse has just so happened to slip through the cracks with Trinitarian Christian theology. This seems like quite a solid bit of reasoning for the unitarian view right?

Numbers 23:19 (ESV)
19 God is not man, that he should lie,
or a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Has he said, and will he not do it?
Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfil it?

Was Jesus Himself a Unitarian? In His prayer, He addressed His Father as “the only true God.”
(John 17:3).

But the fact that the Father is the only true God does not imply that Jesus the only-begotten Son of God is not divine. Indeed, He is divine for that very reason. When a human being begets a son, that son also is human. When God the divine Being begets a Son, that Son also is divine.

Christ’s words. Jhon 17:3

“And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent”

John 17:3 in my opinion rules out the Trinity doctrine and it demonstrates that Jesus was evidently non-Trinitarian in his conception of his own God and Father Jhon 20:17.

Agustines and others alike explain Christ’s words at Jhon 17:3 in this order.

“ Eternal life consists in acknowledging you father and Jesus Christ whom you have sent, as the only true God”

Augustine’s self-invented version of John 17:3 puts Jesus on an equal footing with the Father so that Jesus, along with the Father, becomes the only true God.

The point being, do we adhere to Church fathers teachings/creeds that contradict Christ’s very own words ? Or do we adhere to Christ’s very own words, that as far as we understand haven’t been meddled
with ?

Bow66, That’s all we need - another Unitarian on this forum! Well, I suppose we accept all views, even those that are heretical :slightly_smiling_face: Don’t worry, there are many who will agree with you, including some I know quite well. I love them despite disagreeing with them regarding the Trinity.

We all can find verses that appear on the surface to support our position. Consider, for example, 1 Tim. 3:16. (emphasis is mine).

The Apostle Paul wrote, ''And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh . . . " (I Timothy 3:16). Confessedly, by common consent the Incarnation of Jesus Christ is outside the range of human natural comprehension and apprehension. It can be made known only by Divine revelation in the Holy Scriptures, and to those only who are illumined by the Holy Spirit. It is a truth of the greatest magnitude that God in the Person of His Son should identify Himself completely with the human race. And yet He did, for reasons He set forth clearly in His Word.

I am sure that both sides of this issue can quote numerous scriptures to give credence to their particular belief. However, I don’t get involved too much in the argument over what the Bible writers themselves describe as a “mystery”. I sometimes give myself wise advice and herewith respectfully pass it on. :innocent:

Unfortunately Norm I am one of those ghastly unitarians :grimacing: weather that qualifies me as a heretic or not remains to be seen.
As they say “It will all come out in the wash” preferably a gentle wash. I am certainly not here to make enemy’s, and loving one another despite the differences that may arise is certainly the way to go.

I couldn’t agree more. Most of the time it just becomes a fruitless battle of egos. We all have the same book in front of us and we all need to draw our own conclusions on he subject.

Talking about fruitless battles of egos Norm. surely you could of picked a verse of scripture that has less controversy surround it than 1 Tim 3:16 :wink: