The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Interested in your take on Romans 12:19

“Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” [ESV]

What do you think this means?

i think it’s just meant to be a comfort and admonition. we are meant to forgive and move on. if we know that God is in control of justice, and that He’ll cause our oppressors or injurers to reap what they sow, it should help us do this.
however we should pray for mercy for our enemies, knowing we also deserve justice.

we do know from the rest of the Bible (especially the Old Testament) though that God’s justice (and His vengeance would be just) is remedial. if He wounds, He heals; if He kills, He raises up. it is so that we will acknowledge Him, and so that we will grow in the right way, and so that we’ll stop doing the evil that plagues the earth. He only punishes those He loves, as Hebrews (and i think Proverbs) says.

I’m actually discussing this in another thread at the moment (although I haven’t posted the comment yet).

The immediate context, including the very next verse, and the local contexts are about doing good to our enemies, blessing them, and acting to live in peace with them insofar as it depends on us. And Paul, both here and in the next verse, is citing OT texts (from Deut 32 and Proverbs) where the context is either about leading people to repent of their evil by treating them kindly (Prov) or by kicking their butts until they are neither slave nor free (i.e. destroying them as far anyone can be destroyed) if they won’t learn any other way (Deut 32–but it’s still about teaching them to repent; the super-destruction of the impenitent sinners there is still expected and even prophecied to lead them to repent and be reconciled to God Who will restore them after their punishment.)

In context then, the contrast would be that we should not take any vengeance apart from God–a vengeance that runs opposite to the kind of vengeance God would take, and so which runs opposite to the attitude toward those who sin against us repeatedly exhorted elsewhere throughout Romans 12. Moreover, God in His wisdom knows when vengeance is most appropriate at all, so we should be cautious about dealing it out ourselves as we might be mistaken about the situation and intentions involved.

A similar passage comes to mind:

Jam 1:19 Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God.

This would seem to imply that the anger of God does produce righteousness.

Sonia

This is AWESOME! Thank you Jason and everyone else! Astute observations, guys! :mrgreen:

George MacD said something like ““Vengeance is mine”, says the Lord, because he alone knows what to do with it.”

It should be noted that it’s a reference to Deuteronomy 32:

35 Vengeance is mine, and recompense,
for the time when their foot shall slip;
for the day of their calamity is at hand,
and their doom comes swiftly.’
36 For the Lord will vindicate his people
and have compassion on his servants,
when he sees that their power is gone
and there is none remaining, bond or free.
37 Then he will say, ‘Where are their gods,
the rock in which they took refuge,
38 who ate the fat of their sacrifices
and drank the wine of their drink offering?
Let them rise up and help you;
let them be your protection!

39 “‘See now that I, even I, am he,
and there is no god beside me;
I kill and I make alive;
I wound and I heal;
and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.
40 For I lift up my hand to heaven
and swear, As I live forever,
41 if I sharpen my flashing sword
and my hand takes hold on judgment,
I will take vengeance on my adversaries
and will repay those who hate me.
42 I will make my arrows drunk with blood,
and my sword shall devour flesh—
with the blood of the slain and the captives,
from the long-haired heads of the enemy.’

43 “Rejoice with him, O heavens;
bow down to him, all gods,
for he avenges the blood of his children
and takes vengeance on his adversaries.
He repays those who hate him
and cleanses his people’s land.”