The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Is the Bible Misogynistic?

Theology
#23

In my opinion, the title of the thread is inappropriate. It seems to suggest that the Bible is unified and consistent. It is not. There are many contradictions between commands and recommended behaviour in the OT that Jesus and His teachings directly contradict.

If we think the Bible is unified and consistent, we might also ask “Which Bible”?
There are three different Bibles in use in our day: The Eastern Orthodox Bible, the Roman Catholic Bible, and the :Protestant Bible. The content of the Old Testament in each of these, differs from that of the other two.

#24

Fanta,
Well I agree with you despite your critics so take heart. The NT says God is love & omniscient and the Creator so He has the right to decide morality even if it is arbitrary. He has the right to be arbitrary and our job is to listen and learn.
Women have a biblical role as men do and from a biblical perspective it seems to be centered around family & men seem to be providers , but men are to love their wives not abuse them. It’s a different structure then our culture values but it’s more about humbling ourselves in whatever our role is. It’s not about glorifying ourselves but more about sacrificing for the family and Christ & God.
Now if you don’t believe the bible you will see it as the culture sees it and follow your opinions, which is fine if that is what you believe to be true.

The only thing I disagree with you is about skeptics simply lying. I think in their minds they don’t see enough evidence to believe the bible although I do agree some of them can’t just leave it at that and do make it their mission to disprove the bible.

#25

I don’t because Jesus was and still is a Jew and his followers are called Christians “followers of Christ.”

#26

I think that is even true of EU skeptics, as is demonstrable in given matters on this board.

#28

Just a quick note, the quote is attributed to me, which is incorrect. I did not write that.

#29

1 Timothy has already been explained.

https://creation.com/biblical-view-women

" Paul is often called a “misogynist” because of his commands that a woman not teach or have authority over men (1 Timothy 2:12). But this is simply an instance of Paul affirming that in the created order, men and women are different, and have different roles in worship. The role of men is to teach, and the role of women is to learn in submission. But, again, Paul is not saying that the teacher is ontologically superior to the women learning from him. Paul only prohibits women from teaching men in the church; they are encouraged to teach other women and their children, including their sons (2 Timothy 1:5, 3:14–15).9 The word αὐθεντεῖν ( authentein ) in 1 Timothy 2:12 is a New Testament hapax legomenon which only occurs a few times in secular Greek literature. Some claim that this has a negative connotation, unlike the neutral term ἐξουσιἁζω ( exousiazō ) which can be positive or negative based on the context. All the same, Moo argues that authentein means simply “exercise authority”, in the neutral sense of “have dominion over”, not the negative sense of “lord it over”.10 This was based on the meanings of the word in the times closest to Paul’s writings,11, 12 and it was overwhelmingly the case in Patristic writings.13 Moo also argues that Paul used exousiazō only three times so it was hardly in his usual vocabulary."

Note also, Paul doesn’t ground his teaching on cultural factors but on a straightforward understanding of the Genesis creation account. I.e. Paul accepts Adam and Eve as real people, and even affirms the facts that Adam was created first (Genesis 2) and that Eve was deceived while Adam was not (but sinned anyway, [Genesis 3]"

I do not know why there is a biblia links inserted after the Bible Verses. That’s not how it should be.

#30

God’s Morality isn’t Arbitrary.

#31

“If we use the Bible as the morale compass (which I don’t agree with) then we can justify slavery and women as second rate citizens.”

No!!

“in culture it was important for women to be subservient, so Paul wanted Christianity to prove it was good! and so he ordered women to be that way to spread the gospel. I think this was mistake, but I understand why he probably did it.”

No. He didn’t order them to be that way.

#32

I’m not saying they don’t have better knowledge. I’ve just witness them, over and over, purposefully lying and purposefully taking verses out of context. They are simply “suppressing the truth”, just like Roman’s 1;18-22 says.

#34

“Your third mistake seems to ignore many scriptures that clearly place women below that of men. Just because you read those passages differently (by ignoring them, or re-interpreting them subconsciously) doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Women were treated as 2nd rate citizens in the ancient world, even in Israel.”

I’m not ignoring them or choosing to reinterpret them. I read them for what they actually say. Like when Skwptics make the absurd argument that Numbers 31:18 is referring to them being raped. They merely assume that based on the wording of verse 18, but the verse does not actually say that they were raped, now does it. The idea that verse 18 supports the Rape of the virgin girls is a flat-out baseless claim that has already been refuted. We can certainly go in depth on that more later.

“Women were treated as 2nd rate citizens in the ancient world, even in Israel.”

Yes, that’s how things were at the time, that doesn’t mean the Bible endorses that.

#35

I was quoting someone else’s comment but I guess I could have misread it. Also, when I say “God’s Morality”, that suggests that it’s merely His opinion, does it not?

#37

I can see you have a real problem with skeptics. I’ll disengage as there is nothing you can learn from me. You have it all figured out.

#38

https://carm.org/is-christainity-or-the-bible-misogynistic

" [1 Timothy 2:12–13 (https://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/1%20Tim%202.12–13), “But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.”

“*Notice that Paul bases the issue of authority to the created order of God. This is not a cultural norm. Furthermore, the next chapter states in 1 Timothy 3:15 that Paul is giving instruction on how people are to behave in the church, not society. The critic has no right to judge what should and should not be done in the Christian church. He certainly has a right to disagree and voice his opinion, but such a disagreement is nothing more than his opinion.”

#39

I apologize. I’m just frustrated. I actually don’t have it all figured out. I’m tired of people (generally speaking) having hissy fits, about Bible Verses that have already been explained and have already been shown/proven to be condoning what they claim its condoning. That’s why I’m so annoyed.

I will try to change my attitude so that we can hopefully continue to have this conversation. I hope you will be too.

#41

I did not expect such openness and honesty. I am humbled by it. I will have no quarrel with you and apologize for my own lack of charity towards you.

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#42

“Or do you think consideration is given to women who must be one of 1,000 wives of Solomon? Or David, whom had to send all his wives away because his son slept with them all? They were not allowed to get married, have children. They were damaged goods! You think that isn’t wrong?”

Since I’m unfamiliar with that particular example, I’ll have to look into it. I’ll definitely want to read it before giving you a response.

But in the meantime, tell me why any of that would be wrong in an Atheistic, Evolutionary Worldview, where Morality is either Relative to each person, or relative to each Society or perhaps it’s simply Subjective to each person for each Society? If that’s truly how Morality is, then why would any of those things be wrong? If each Society can decide Him or Herself what’s right and wrong, then who are you to say that they are wrong? What would give you the right to say that they are somehow wrong, if, as, some (Skeptics believe) that Morality is deciding based on what each Society says? Now, please do realize that these questions do not imply that I don’t think any of these things are wrong. I’m simply asking you some questions.

#43

Okay. I don’t think that, that was the response that I expected. Thanks.

#44

In response to my alleged ‘5th mistake’:

#45

But you asserted, Paul instructs that on “the issue of authority,” “The role of men is to teach, and the role of women is to learn in submission.” So unless practicing subservience and practicing submission are completely different, it appears that you do see Paul as commanding that women’s distinctive role is “to be that way.”

#46

“Or when Jesus let a so called “disgusting whore” wash his feet? Clearly, he incensed a religious leader by doing that.”

Would you please site the Bible verse for this? I am completely oblivious to the “disgusting whore” allegation and “incensed a religious leader by doing that” (means)???