The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Is the Head of the Church of England moonlighting?

I must confess to being a Daily Mail reader :blush: It’s a quick read and there are some interesting articles in it- yes, really there are. Anyway, today, there’s an interesting article about Rowan Williams, the head of the Church of England, and here’s the picture to the article:


:open_mouth:

Hi Catherine :laughing:

Now I’m a Daily Mail reader too; I read the Independent also to get a rounded view of things. I did read the article about Rowan Williams in the Mail by our friend Martin Bashir yesterday.

Regarding the picture – yes Rowan looks a proper banana in his gear :unamused: . He is a fine poet – in the tradition of R.S. Thomas, and as a Welsh poet he participates in a festival known as the Eisteddfod. It is a yearly festival of prize giving that includes some dressing up in groovy gear and a certain amount of pomp and ceremony. Photos of Rowan in his Eisteddfod gear have been doing the rounds on the internet for years – especially on sectarian Calvinist sites – to suggest that the Church of England is headed by a mad Druidic wizard. However… the festival is not a pagan Druid one at all. Its origins are detailed in the Wikipedia thus -

*** The date of the first Eisteddfod is a matter of much debate among scholars, but boards for the judging of poetry definitely existed in Wales from at least as early as the twelfth century, and it is likely that the ancient Celtic bards had formalized ways of judging poetry as well. The first Eisteddfod can be traced back to 1176, under the auspices of Lord Rhys, at his castle in Cardigan. There he held a grand gathering to which were invited poets and musicians from all over the country. A chair at the Lord’s table was awarded to the best poet and musician, a tradition that prevails in the modern day National Eisteddfod. The earliest large scale Eisteddfod that can be proven beyond all doubt to have taken place, however, was the Carmarthen Eisteddfod, which took place in 1451. The next recorded large-scale eisteddfod was held in Caerwys in 1568. The prizes awarded were a miniature silver chair to the successful poet, a little silver crwth to the winning fiddler, a silver tongue to the best singer, and a tiny silver harp to the best harpist. Originally, the contests were limited to professional Welsh bards who were paid by the nobility. To ensure the highest standard possible, Elizabeth I of England commanded that the bards be examined and licensed. As interest in the Welsh arts declined, the standard of the main eisteddfod deteriorated as well and they became more informal. In 1789, Thomas Jones organised an eisteddfod in Corwen where for the first time the public were admitted. The success of this event led to a revival of interest in Welsh literature and music.***

Obviously the bardic tradition in Wales – with its fountainhead in the Mabinogion - goes back to pre-Christian times. But from the time of the Arthurian romances it was well and truly Christianized (just as C.S. Lewis later Christianized the Greek myths in his Narnia chronicles); and I think it was a little bit naughty of the Daily Mail to print this picture with Bashir’s attack on Rowan Williams. The Daily Mail is not always fair - and it doesn’t like Rowan Williams.

Regarding Bashir’s critique – I thought it rather one sided. Bashir is a bit of a bruiser (perhaps we should call him ‘basher’ :laughing: ). I note that it was Bashir who gave Rob Bell a hard time in an interview about ‘Love Wins’. He was very aggressive – while Rob Bell remained sweet and composed. Also he was unfair and skewed in his bullish questioning. For example he misstated the paradox of ‘How can an all loving, all powerful God allow evil and suffering’ in an extremely unfair opening salvo about the Tsunami in Japan (I’m still waiting to see Martin Bashir’s ‘answer’ to the problem of Evil :unamused: ); and he asserted muddled half truths about ancient heresies in an attempt to trash Universalism. Basher is a combative journalist –I wouldn’t’ look to him for rounded truth about Rowan Williams or about Rob Bell and Universalism. He’s a crowd pleaser and an entertainer.

Blessings

Dick

in short:
typical daily fail.

i don’t think i can be friends with either of you anymore if you read that rot! :imp:

:laughing:

Well it could be worse - we could both be Daily Express readers :laughing: and anyway - the Guardian is kind of smug apart fomr Giles Fraser(I have a lot of Guardian reader friends - and they think that my reading the Mail is an act of heresy; some liberals can be such prigs!!!) :laughing: And I think Quentin Letts and Craig Brown are very funny :laughing:

Hi Catherine -

The upshot is that Rowan Williams does look a twerp in this gear (but perhaps not so if you are Welsh, adn i’m sur ethey find Beefeaters weird :laughing: ). And we two both read the Daily Mail :laughing:

Actually the Daily Mail is quite a ‘Broad Church’ for a conservative newspaper and some of its campaigning journalism is excellent. As for the columnists - well columnists are people who are paid to have very strong opinions (some have very stong opinions indeed and are a tad ungenerous to people with different opinions, as are Guardian columinists too); but even the Mail columnists are not all singing from the same sheet - there is a range of views to savour rather than a single ideology. But journalism is a ‘low profession’ though a necessary one - and it’s good trying to discern in any newspaer just how much is fact and how much is opinion.

Look forward to touching base about the Mail again someday perhaps - and do look out for Quentin Letts because that chap is lots of fun. :slight_smile:

I don’t really know much about Rowan Williams, and so I’m not sure if Bashir is being fair or not. I only noticed the article because of the strange picture of him dressed as a druid (which is the correct title for this occassion apparently??). :unamused:

Sobornost, you’ve piqued my interest. :smiley:

After checking out a few sources, it seems clear that the festival Rowan Williams was attending has adopted (over the centuries) aspects that are truly ‘part of’ or ‘modelled on’ the pagan druids. Three clear examples would be: the costumes they wear, the title of ‘druid’ and the stone circles they have. As noble and hourable as the Eisteddfod may be, I personally would have a problem with being a member of any society that resembled and mimicked aspects of a clearly pagan movement. I have the same problem with the Catholic Church. :wink:

But come on now- does Rowan really think that dressing up like a Stonehenge druid and being called a druid and stepping into a stone circle (according to one of the articles I read??) doesn’t look weird?? :confused: It boggles my mind. Then again, that could be The Mail… :laughing:

I know who I’m never keen on, and only have to read the titles of his topics to see how negative he is: Peter Hitchens. :unamused:

Oh yes - he’s a gloomy, gloomy man; Christopher Hitchen’s little brother. He’s a convert from communism to Christianity. Or rather he’s reverted to the Anglican faith of his boyhood. He is romantic for the ‘Christian England of his youth and sees the England of today as tripping the primose path to hell. However, when he was a boy there were people like him who were romantic for another England of bygone days. T.S Elliot wrote of commuters in the rush hour in London in the 1930’s: ‘A crowd flowed over London Bridge/ So many, I did not know death had undone so many’ (alluding here to a verse from Dante’s Inferno’) andHitchen’s sees the commuters of today wiht pretty much the same vision. Oh well it’s one way of seeing th eworld - but I think it’s very one sided; and I rejoice that not all Christians are sullen like Pete. But he does have a sense of humour - alhtoughthsi seldom modulates from bitting sarcasm. And although he tends towards the extreme, every now and then he says something generous about a person he disagrees with. I find old Pete a curious character (but I’m not sure I’d enjoy sharing a cab with him) :laughing:

I must say though, that when I’ve watched Peter Hitchens on the telly, he doesn’t seem as bad in person. :wink: I think it was the Mail that did an interesting article with Peter and Christopher (before Christopher’s death I think?). Both intelligent and interesting men.

Yes sullen Pete is often nicer in the flesh than when ranting on the page (and it was very funny when he accused Jane Fonda of sexism on Question Time :laughing: ). Perhaps I would share a cab with him (perhaps he’d raise objections to sharing one with me!) :laughing:

Caherine -

Have a look at Quentin Letts column in the Mail on Saturday - what he says is an implicit criticism of Martin ‘Basher’ Bashir (and all journalists). I’ve always had a soft spot for Quentin (crazy name!!! - posh!!!) :slight_smile:

Hi Dick. I’ve read Quentin’s column. Thanks. Yes, I like Quentin too. :wink:

Sister and Brother Quentin fans united :smiley:

:laughing: