The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Is the Lord Jesus the Holy Spirit?

Theology Soteriology
#1

I think I have indicated in some of my other posts that The Holy Spirit if not a third divine person, but yet is personal—the very persons of the Father and the Son. I used the following scripture:

… If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him. (John 14:23)

HOW will the Father and the Son make their dwelling with those who love Jesus and who keep His word? My answer was “by means of their Holy Spirit.” The Son is the exact imprint of the Father ("He who has seen me has seen the Father), and they are in such unity that they share the same Spirit. They can extend their personalities or “Spirit” anywhere in the universe, especially into the hearts of the faithful.

In the following passage, Paul refers to Jesus as “The Lord” and then states twice that He IS the Spirit:

But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. (2 Cor. 3:14-18)

The second-century Christian writer, Justin Martyr affirmed in his “Apology ch. 33” (written to the Emperor Titus Ælius Adrianus Antoninun Pius Augustus Cæsar) that the Spirit is none other than the Logos Himself:

  • It is wrong, therefore to understand the Spirit and the Power of God as anything else but the Logos, who is also the first-born of God…
    That the prophets are inspired by no other than the divine Word, even you, as I fancy, will grant.*

What do you think?

#2

That’s interesting, Paidion! Will have to ponder it.

#3

I have always been on the fence when it comes to the Trinity. Though, I must admit, when I apply some logic to it, I tend to slant towards what Paiden has written above. That said, I never found it worth arguing over. I remember L Ray Smith making some compelling points on this.

#4

Do you think it worth mentioning, or even worth teaching? Or should it be avoided altogether, so as not to create division among Christians?

#5

Hello,
recently i read the following verse in acts 2,33 (NIV):

That sounds like Jesus got the Holy Spirit from God Father and that He (Jesus) did not always possess Him (Holy Spirit)?
What do you say, Paidion and the others.
Thank you and blessings
Dani

#6

Very interesting topic:) And a tuff one at that to explain :laughing: I do agree with you though that the Holy Spirit is the makeup of God and Jesus, The Father and the Son, but its just more of a personal essence and conscious thing? if you will with it? That may make no sense whatsoever because although I believe in the Trinity, its also a very very hard thing for me to explain or comprehend even for that matter. One of those things that I believe in fully, but its basically with faith and not due to…I understand it all logically:) The hardest for me to get though…is the all in one between God and Jesus. The Holy Spirit is pretty easy for me to get…at least in my mind:) I look at it like this…

Once a person has accepted God into their lives, thats when you receive the Holy Spirit, which lives inside your heart, soul and conscious I believe. It would be like me trying to navigate myself through a desert with landmines everywhere blindfolded. Now, way up in the sky someone is looking down and can see that whole place, knows where the landmines are, knows where water is located, etc but being that high up, of course I cant hear them or anything. So they ask me if I want their help. I say yes…and they give me this ear piece to put into my ears so that I can hear them speak to me on where I need to go, what moves I need to make, etc Now when walking through all this, I can hear them speak to me, guiding me. I think its the same with the Holy Spirit…its to me…God giving us the spirit of them both in us to have and keep. And the more we nurture that relationship and listen to it, the clearer the sound becomes and the directions and guidance. But if we start to sway away…steer off course or just stop listening, that spirit gets fainter and fainter and we are less likely to be able to hear it.

Anyways…probably a dumb analogy but thats what got me to understand at least the Holy Spirit part better:) I agree with you too Dani, in that, that verse does tend to lean to that understanding, but does that mean Jesus didnt have it before then? Looks like if God the Father and Son are two separate but at the same time one…both of them would have it already and it wouldnt have had to be given to Jesus to give to us, I dont know:)

As for do I think it should be talked about, learned on, etc…Yes I do!:slight_smile: But I most def wouldnt ever take it so far as to get into a dispute over it or anything because it is just a complicated and abstract thing for our feeble human minds to comprehend and understand:)

Blessings
Carrie

#7

Not quite translated correctly. First, the Greek word is stronger than “received”; it is “taken”.

Secondly, it’s not “the promised Holy Spirit” that Jesus took from the Father; it’s “the promise of the Holy Spirit” that He took from the Father.
I think that the result of taking this promise from the Father, was that He and the Father poured out their spirit or personality upon the disciples on that special day of Pentecost.

#8

Depends on the person. Since it really doesn’t malign the character of God, I don’t think it is a big deal one way or the other. No harm in friendly discussions, but most of the time it devolves into a sharp dissagreement. I am not in any way referring to this forum, as this is the place to discuss such things.

The only issue I have with the trinity is how people almost seem to worship it. It is quite strange to me, honestly.

#9

Thank you Paidion.