Some of you may know that my struggle to be fully convinced of the salvation of all has been a long one. I read this today and the sentences in red really stuck out. How would you defend your beliefs against this? Or are we being decieved?
If Christian Universalism is ‘New Age’ it is surprising that it goes back to the early Church. As for Project Blue Beam it was the invention of a Canadian conspiracy theorist and Quebec Separatist. His books deal with Star Trek, Jurassic Park, the New World Order, a simulated hologramic Second Coming of Christ engineered by Anti-Christ etc. I dunno my friend - this stuff is outside of the scope of what you can argue with rationally. For starters earthquakes do not normally unearth archaeological finds - fake or real. I wouldn’t let this worry you. Conspiracy theories aren’t new. When they are a sort of private hobby there’s little harm. But conspiracy theories of this order - if they ever become something a wider public are gripped by - have never resulted in goodness, forgiveness, beauty love etc in the only history we know of - never.
And anyway the post you cite seems to be referring to evolutionary theory as a hoax and making some unspecified hints at the emergence of a syncretic World religion (I understand this faked Second Coming is meant to be a hologramic merger of images of Christ, Krishna and Maitreya facilitated by NASA). Christian Universalism is not a syncretic religion - it is Christian universalism.
In your struggles IMHO you can put the Project Blue Beam stuff in the irrelevant bin.
Blessings to you
Dick
Thanks Dick, I didn’t particularly mean Project Blue Book, but I’ve heard all my life that the “strong delusion” would be an apostate religion. I’ve come to believe that most of what I was taught was wrong so the particular sentences that I highlighted stuck our to me in this sense.
I’m pretty sure Blue Book (a real USAF project slightly predating my birth) isn’t this supposed Blue Beam, but this sort of conspiracy theorist would doubtless find some way to syncretistically read it into his conspiracy about a coming false syncretism of incommensurate ideas. Insert irony here as applicable. 
Are there “new age” versions of universalism? Sure! The so-called Unitarian Universalist Church is one such thing, and I’m sure I’ve heard of others.
Those are absolutely not trinitarian Christian universalism, or even dogmatic unitarian Christian universalism, though. Unless the exclusive truth of trinitarian theism vs other religions is supposed to be “new age” somehow. Maybe back in the 1st and 2nd centuries it was.
I’m so hyper-orthodox at being trinitarian Christian, I routinely complain about other trinitarian Christians not being consistently trinitarian (or otherwise not ‘being trinitarian enough’ so to speak). My universalism, rightly or wrongly, follows from that as a corollary; and scripturally it follows from the same rather boring and normal and technical hermeneutics I would and do use in trying to assess what the scriptures as a whole testify concerning theology.
It isn’t easy, and it isn’t obvious, and it certainly isn’t “new age” in the anti-Christian sense the conspiracy theorist is (I would say somewhat rightly if hilariously over-expectantly) worried about.
Still, the catastrophic example of the eventual fate of the UUs serves as a good warning to the rest of us. A very annoying good warning, but not one we can simply ignore either. A generous and charitable orthodoxy is one thing, mushy theology is something else altogether, but it’s easy and tempting to slide from one into the other.
I think the stuff about apostate religion is big in fundamentalist Christianity – I know it is. The agents of this ‘grand apostasy’ have varied over the centuries. First it was the Church of Rome – and then it was the Church of Rome as operated especially through the Jesuits. Then it was the Jesuits and international Freemasonry. Then it was a collaboration of the Freemasons, the Jesuits and the Jews through International Finance. Then it was all of these plus the Communists and the European Community (when it had ten countries in it corresponding to the ten hills of Rome). A fairly recent version has New Age believers in the vanguard while the latest version concerns international Islamism and the Islamic Antichrist (which seems to have been missed by the author you quote above). And a very recent and still forming version we are discussing here has Christian Universalists in the vanguard of this push to destabilise the world so that a New World Order can be imposed. IT is problematic that the conspiracy theorists often turn on each other so that you get people writing extreme sectarian books suggesting that notable Christian conspiracy theorists like Pat Robertson are actually part of the New World Order Apostasy conspiracy.
This has nothing to do with the Christ that I know – that’s all I can say 
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Heh, yeah it’s funny when they start attacking each other as CLEARLY BEING ON THE SIDE OF THE COMING-OR-PRESENT ANTI-CHRIST!
I should however clarify, I guess, that I’m a bit of a fan of final tribulation theories. Not a huge expert on them, but I’ve enjoyed and (so far as possible for me) appreciated them, literally for as long as I’ve been studying the Bible with any systematic intention (i.e. since I was around 6 or 7 years old, back in the first heydays of the Late Great Dr. Hal Lindsey. Well, maybe not “late”, he was still alive to my surprise in 2013.) I still think this type of thing (without insisting on particular details) would be, in several ways, a dramatically fitting final act before starting an overt reign of Christ.
But I also know better, from long experience, than to try to suss out definite details ahead of time; nor will I be particularly surprised if something else happens instead.
I’m gonna agree with you there completely Jason 
First of all to clarify this matter we’d have to define ‘New Age’. The whole gamut of New Age beliefs appear either to be monistic - everything/ everyone is God - or dualistic - a hankering after a disembodied spiritual world of channelled entities and extra terrestrials. No Christian Universalist is a monist or dualist - our metaphysics are very different.
Just to throw this out there, though I’m no expert on the Unitarian Universalist church or anything, their history or their practice, I can actually resonate a lot with the ecumenical thrust of Unitarian Universalism, even if it’s kind of flighty in its approach on things, but hey, I’m really not one to judge, as I’m kind of flighty myself. 
I think there are some meaningful parallels between different faiths and philosophies, even if there are differences as well.
Obviously there is a lot of variety within each religion and philosophy, but there are certain elements you can find in at least some corner, if not throughout, virtually every major religion and philosophy, such as the importance of loving and helping others, the importance of gaining wisdom and bettering oneself, the importance of prayer/meditation as a way of connecting with things of the spirit, the search for the transcendent and that which is beyond ourselves, etc.
Even universalism can be found in some form or another among most every major religion and philosophy other than Christianity, from what I can tell, which I find interesting.
Recently I’ve been watching this really cool series on YouTube called Have A Little Faith, where a really cool, funny, and good-natured agnostic guy named Zach (who also happens to have cereberal palsy and is in a wheelchair) goes around and talks with different people about their faith. Thus far he’s talked with Muslims, Jews, Mormons, Quakers, Baptists, Bahais, Atheists, Buddhists, and Catholics, and today he posted a video where he talked to a really cool lady who identified herself as a witch and a mystic, and strangely enough I found what she had to share intriguing, but more than that, the spirit she had about her was very genuine and positive (and she has an awesome singing voice too ), despite her somewhat funky beliefs (though some of her beliefs I can resonate with).
You can check out that video here:
youtube.com/watch?v=vM2KuOCwhGY
I recommend you check out the other videos in the series as well, it’s all good stuff.
I think one of the things that really bothered me when I was trying my hand at being an evangelical in the Baptist church was how some people I knew in that circle never really seemed to try and hear out other perspectives, or didn’t want to understand other worldviews, unless they were reading some apologetic books that were written by Christians, in order to show how any group that didn’t fit within ‘orthodox’ Christianity was a cult, was heretical, was godless, etc.
I even ran into fear among some that studying or researching anything religious or spiritual outside the confines of Christianity (and Christianity as most evangelicals understood it, of course), could corrupt you in some way, or God would get mad at you about it, or something. 
I think this isn’t a healthy attitude to have though, and seeing things like the series I’ve been watching encourages me, as things like that can help people to understand that those who believe differently than they do may not be as deluded or as bad as they think they are (well, some extremists in different religions might be pretty deluded or bad, like Al-Qaeda, or the Westboro Baptist Church, or any group that commits mass suicide by drinking poisoned Kool-Aid, or that sort of thing, but then I digress), and have reasons for believing what they believe that are just as strong and heartfelt as their own, or they might even be challenged when they find that ‘those people’ may be more loving and caring and gracious and giving, and thus more in tune with God, than they are. Whoduthunk it, right?
With all that said though, I don’t think every religion and philosophy, even every major one, can just be synchronized and amalgamated together wholesale without any trouble. There are differences, even major ones, there are areas in which different faiths and philosophies contradict eachother, and that really can’t be argued… however, there are parallels and similarities here and there, and I think in large part because, on the one hand, there are certain universal (or almost universal) desires that people share, because we’re all in the same boat essentially, looking for answers, trying to understand the world around us, because different faiths and philosophies have influenced and effected one another in subtle or not so subtle ways (for example, Christianity and Islam are both offshoots of Judaism, at least in a fashion) and are at least on that level interconnected, and also, I think, because the Spirit of God is at work throughout the world in various ways, seeking to bring about justice and healing, and to bring people closer to God and into the way of Christ, which, as far as I can tell, is the way of love, so if a person of another faith (like Judaism or Islam or even Wicca, for example) is, through their faith, learning to love others more and better, then I think the Spirit of God is in that, even if their theology or their beliefs may be off in some way, or even a lot of ways (though maybe not so much as we might think, because you just never know… and hey, it’s not like any Christian can say they have everything right either ).
I suppose one might call this more of an inclusive take on things, so I guess you could call me an inclusivist.
I know Grant (NightRevan) feels the same way about things of this nature (though he may look at it a little differently than I do, which is cool ), and I’m sure we’re not the only ones.
I do believe Jesus is of great importance, but I believe God is ultimately bigger than Christianity, and for that matter, I believe Jesus is too.
That’s just my two cents though, and my somewhat flighty view on things, so y’all don’t have to agree with me.
And I guess my overall point here is we shouldn’t jump on the UU or ‘New Age’ or anything outside of evangelical/traditional/orthodox’ Christianity too much, because we might be surprised to find that God was among them more than we might have initially thought.
What’s that Jacob said… “Surely the LORD is in this place, and I did not know it.”
Blessings to you guys and peace
- Matt
Hi Matt –
Coming from a Logos centred faith – both incarnational Anglicanism and the Quaker doctrine of the Light of Christ have been formative on me – I’d agree with much of what you have to say and call myself an ‘inclusivist too’. I think much of this is a matter for discernment.
Yes I think that all genuine journey’s in faith, hope and love come from God in Christ reconciling the world. I think that the paranoid style of Christianity that demonises everything outside the bounds of Christian ‘culture’ meaning mainstream Western culture is profoundly mistaken (a is the tenor of end times literature). I recall that William Stringfellow – someone who Richard Beck is/was fond of quoting in his blog– turned the tables on the End Time prophets industry and called America the anti-Christ (I think personally that he was as incorrect as the End Times prophets of the American Religious Right – but he made an interesting rhetorical point about power).
Regarding the UU the point is that they actually have largely dissolved into an ineffectual group without any good news for humanity beyond personal and inward quests. That’s not to demonise them but it is what has happened to them. It is a case of believe what you want to believe without any clear message. That’s the problem I have with them as a community of hope – they no longer cook for the masses (as it were). Also their ‘universalism’ can easily slide into relativism – it is no longer about God’s universal will to save – but about all religious truths being equal and therefore ‘universal’.
I want to be true to the Truth as it is in Jesus and share the truth I know while being open to the insights of others; open, charitable and discerning.
If I think of the New Agers – who seemed to have peaked and fallen off a bit at the moment – I’m not hostile to people I know with New Age beliefs – far from it. I think they have something to tell Christians who are often too set in post Enlightenment rationalism and materialism in their world view. However, I do hold fast to what I know is Truth in any encounter with them. Some varieties of New Age beliefs I consider harmful rather than neutral (and I’d say the same about some varieties of Christian beliefs as you know). For example –
I consider the New Thought belief that we create our own reality though our positive or negative thoughts and therefore completely responsible for whatever happens to us as being potentially disastrous. I’ve seen New Age writings that claim that the Jews deserved the holocaust on these grounds; that blame the poor for their poverty; and talk about illness as if it is a personal decision .Obviously the same mindset often informs Prosperity Gospel thinking.
True ‘New Thought’ can teach us all something about the value of self esteem – which some forms of Christianity are neglectful of to a terrible degree – but taken too far it becomes oppressive.
Likewise there are versions of New Age teaching that imagine some sort of destruction of all being who are not ‘spiritual – a cleansing to herald the Age OF Aquarius – David Spangler has spoken in these terms (and apocalyptic fantasies have been big with other New Age writers). It’s a Gnostic version of the fantasies of the End Time prophets – and again I would strongly object to it in the name of the Truth in Jesus that I know.
There is loads I could say about New Age teachings and their variety and how i think we should engage with them in a respectful way (when respect is due).
Regarding other religions and believers from other religions – well there is a huge variety of beliefs in each of the major religions (they are as various as Christianity and never monolithic) I think we need to engage with each believer in another religion with loving attention as they meet us and listen to them and not prejudge them. I really am all in favour of religious dialogue. But in dialogue I think we must stand in our own truth as others stand in their own truths – and there is always enrichment and risk in every encounter. And people who have another faith – and who are not simply pick and mix spirituality types – respect you far more if you stand up for your own faith as they do for theirs I have found.
But as a Christian Universalist I want to communicate what I believe clearly in terms of the encounter with Jesus - and I think the bottom line is that I am concerned that we should not become so diffuse that we stand for everything and nothing at the same time.
Blessings to you old chap and peace
Dick
I’m glad he saved your life and you saved his. Both of your lives are very precious Cole
I know of a book that I can broadly recommend on the topic of Christianity and New Age beliefs (which is critical of many New Age beliefs and conspiratorial Christian responses in equal measure and is an informed discussion - while looking for whatever is positive that we can learn from current trends) -
John Drane - ‘What is the New Age still saying to the Church’.
Dr Drane is an especially useful guide since he is a fairly open evangelical Christian with a doctorate in Gnosticism. I learnt from this book and its sanity (even though I don’t come from the evangelical tradition).
That Dr. Drane’s book does sound interesting. Will try to remember next time I’m at Amazon.
I do agree about not jumping too hard on the UUs or other New Age faith/belief/philosophies; also the value of a venue for being able to sit down and work out where we have differences and overlaps. I even say positive things about that in the chapter of SttH where I reject the notion that all religious and/or philosophical beliefs are equally true, though I thought the other day I ought to go back and revise that a bit more because the gist nowadays tends to be that all such beliefs are equally-partially true, so to speak. That ends up having the same central self-refuting weakness, but it’s still a subtler and more nuanced and mature position.
At the same time I do want to make it clear that there are Christian universalisms which are doctrinally chewy (and even high-trinitarian) and definitely NOT New Ageish, even if we’re willing to be generous to NA groups and people.
I hear ya Dick, and just to let you know, I have a lot of respect for your input on things, as I feel you’re far more knowledgeable in a lot of these areas than myself, being more widely read then I am
I imagine you’re right about the UU church. I still think that their attempt at ecumenical dialogue is a noble thing, even if they don’t go about it as well as they could, and I’ve heard here and there about people going to their church services and finding the people there to be friendly and welcoming and positive for the most part, which is a good thing to be sure.
But it does look like they are a little too wishy washy (even more so than myself), and try too hard to make everything fit together, and it looks like they haven’t had much of a positive impact on the world, though, to be fair, that could be said of a lot of churches, sadly. 
And I agree that within New Age, or any other religion, spirituality, or philosophy, including Christianity, there are going to be ideas here and there, within certain groups or throughout, that are or can be harmful and destructive, or way off base. Personally I feel that bad ideas within Christianity are, overall, more harmful and destructive than any you might find within New Age stuff, though not because they’re always worse (well, I can’t really imagine anything being worse than believing and teaching that God Almighty is going to fry 99.9 percent of human beings, whom He created, in a literal hell forever and ever, like the Westboro Baptist Church believes and teaches, but they’re a very extreme group… though, then again, there are others within Christianity who believe that or something close to that, so yeah) only because Christianity is more widespread and therefore can do more damage, but that’s just how I feel about it.
And yeah, dialogue is really important, and I agree that we should try to hold to our own convictions while we are respectful of the convictions of others.
I admit that when it comes down to it I don’t honestly have many strong positions at this point, and am very much up in the air on a lot of things, and in that sometimes I feel I can be kind of ‘diffused’ at times, but there are some things I feel strongly about, even if I can’t really hammer those things out into a systematic theology or formalized doctrine.
I feel pretty strongly about the existence of a personal God, a Spirit that is at work in our lives and our hearts, and I feel pretty strongly about this God being good, and trustworthy, and being all about love and understanding, healing and restoration.
I feel pretty strongly about how God speaks to us in various ways in our lives and hearts, through the Bible and the church, yes, I believe that God can speak through those things, but I also believe God can also speak through nature, through books and movies and music, through circumstances and dreams and visions, through other people or our conscience, etc.
I feel pretty strongly about there being certain things that are wrong, like murder and rape and child abuse and genocide and really anything that isn’t grounded in love, and that there are certain traditional beliefs, like eternal damnation for example, that are very harmful and destructive to people’s mental and emotional well-being, and should be questioned and spoken out against.
I also feel pretty strongly about there being an afterlife (or a life after if you will) of some kind, and that in that afterlife there will be total healing and restoration for all (preceded by correction and temporal punishment, if necessary).
And I even feel pretty strongly about Jesus being an integral part of what God is doing, that he matters and is important somehow, though I confess that I don’t yet have a lot of clarity on all of that.
Those are a few of the things that I feel pretty strongly about, and would stand my ground on, though I admit I don’t care to argue too much with people, and try to find common ground if possible rather than focus on our differences, but that’s just me.
Anyways, that’s kind of where I’m at on that, and I agree that being open to dialogue while also being true to our convictions is a good balance.
Blessings to you as well, my friend
- Matt
Blessings to you too Matt
Looking forward to reading that Jason
The funny thing is, the apostate religion (that Paul warned about) that appeared very early on, is actually the place from which the people are coming who try to accuse christian universalism of apostasy!
The thing about the Christian universalist message is that it is truly unique (and not new); all other interpretations of the gospel are various forms and shades of exclusivism.