isms lead to schisms

[redhotmagma]

Universalism
calvinism
arminianism
catholicism
arianism
legalism
antinomianism
trinitarianism
mormanism
Denominationalism

I understand that using labels makes life easier sometimes, but I also believe that it creates rifts. I was in an online conversation with a guy, and mentioned that the reason for election is for the elect to bring in the rest humanity into the glorious freedom of the Mature Sons. I cited Revelation where it speaks of the kings bringing in wealth into the temple, and that we are to be a nation of kings and priests.

His immediate response was “that sounds like mormonism to me”. Written off because of an “ism”, without regard to biblical witness. How many of us have experienced something similar because of “universalism”? Immediately rejected without cause because that sounds like that box over there, and I’m more comfortable in my box over here.

Well I’m writing this because the use of labels and categories is the biggest thing that urks me on this board. I realize many here have formal theological training and you’re used to using these labels as a shorthand, so you don’t have to explain, by ______ I mean ______. I get that, its kind of like stereotypes are somewhat useful because they are generally true many times. But the problem is that its not true all the time. And stereotypes lead to prejudice. Now I’m not saying racial, economic stereotyping is the exact same thing as theological labeling, but I think you get my point.

I’m also not saying we should be all roads lead to god. What I am saying is when you label someone you may have just done unto your brothers as you wouldn’t have them do unto you, and I believe this is a major problem in our world, especially in Christianity. Our goal is to be one, and I believe these isms are walls that breakdown the unity of faith.

In Peace and Love, through Christ our head, jointly fitted together in the unity of faith
Jeremy

[pilgrim]

Who was it that said:
“When you label me, you negate me” ?

I can’t remember - but it’s true.

Good post RHM

[Kelly_S]

Thank you, Mag. It is well spoken.

[Sherman]

Hi Jeremy, I see things differently. To me “isms” describe a set of commonly associated beliefs. It’s neither good nor bad. If people are dismissive of others, that attitude will come out in their words and actions one way or another. If we drop the use of isms, some other word will be used. The problem is the attitudes of pride, self-righteousness, close-mindedness, etc. If we will walk in humility and love towards others, then isms is not a problem.

[SLJ]

Agreed, Sherman. The problem goes deeper than having names for different belief sets. The problem is the assumption that differences of opinion need to cause division.

Sonia.

[redhotmagma]

Thanks for the replies guys. Sherman and Sonia I hear you and agree. In theory thats correct and it shouldnt matter. I just feel in practice that may not be the case.

Lets use a hot topic on the board as an example. Julie F’s “arianism”. If you have been in the church for any length of time and have done any theological reading you’re probably aware of arianism and that it is “heresy”. Whether that ism correctly defines her beliefs or not there is a negative connotation associated with arianism. Again whether the labeler meant any negativity to the labelee the labelee may take offence. Not that we should be easily offended, or we need to have political correctness or need to walk on eggshells

We have these subconcious associations with isms. This is main problem I see with them is that it can interfere with our growth in the spirit. I know I had an emotional response to “arian” like oh thats bad, i dont want to be one of those types of heretics. Maybe Im just not mature enough, or this is just a thing for me, i dont know. I just see these having potential to create divides. What is a denomination? A named division in the body based on accepted doctrines.

For ther is neither Jew nor greek barbarian or free.

[Sherman]

Good morning Jeremy,

In the example you noted, Arianism, it’s not the “ism” that’s the problem but the attitudes, often subconscious, that some, even many, people have towards others who have that belief. I’ve found that when I have a negative reaction towards some “ism”, the problem is usually within me, and the problem is usually my traditions. I’ve been conditioned to be negative towards another group of people usually without either knowing anyone of that group personally and without having ever given serious consideration to their beliefs. This “conditioning” I recieved from the spiritual leaders I’ve had in my life. Overcoming this “conditioning” has been a long process of exposure to others who believe differently than I do and education.

I was raised in a VERY Exclusive denomination. "We weren’t sure we were saved, but we were pretty sure everyone else not part of our group wasn’t! " We assumed that our interpretation of scripture was correct, the most evident and plain of all, and that other people did not understand and interpret scripture the way we did because they had selfish motives. All other “isms” were rooted in deception, selfish ambition, evil. Talk about pride and self-righteousness!

I’ve learned over the years though that none of us have perfect understanding of scripture, and none of us have completely right motives. Thus my faith has come to rest in the goodness and rightness of God, not in mine. In fact, I’ve also come to recognize that I don’t know near as much as I think I do. And from experience I’ve come to learn to not denounce the beliefs of others and especially to not denounce others; instead I simply affirm what I’ve come to believe and why I’ve come to believe it, because, well, I could be wrong and they could be right. Thus I leave the judging in God’s hands and I preface what I believe with “I believe”.

I know what you mean though, for rarely do I share with people saying “I’m a universalist” or “I believe in Christian Universalism” because most Christians react so negatively towards it. Instead, “IF” I want to share with someone concerning my beliefs (which happens very often), I’ve learned to say something along the lines that “I’ve come to believe that Jesus really is the savior of all humanity!” To which they’ll say, “Oh, I do too.” But I reply, “Hmm, I’ve found that most Christians believe that Jesus fails to save most of humanity.”… Well, the conversation gets interesting after that.

Some people say, “Well, that’s universalism.” and thus dismiss it. Usually though the way I’ve introduced it at least gets a seed of possibility past their traditions and I trust that maybe one day that see will produce fruit.

[JasonPratt]

Jeremy,

I think Sherman is right about the problem being our own personal attitudes toward isms, not the categorization of ideas themselves. We do each of us in fact believe some things to be true exclusive to other truth claims. (Even people who try to claim that all beliefs are true, believe this exclusive to those who claim it is true that some claims are not true. )

Are you in the Roman Catholic Church? Or the Eastern Orthodox? You can’t be in both, as they are in schism from each other (and each would say the other is in schism from themselves!); and if you are Protestant you aren’t in either of them. But the only way to avoid protesting, and so being an ism (except for catholic-ism!) is to be in one of those communions.

To believe one thing and not another, or even to try to believe all things, is to be divided in belief from those who believe other things to be true and untrue. It’s going to happen anyway. We can either choose to fundamentally respect our opponents as persons, or not. But Christ came to bring a sword, as well as to bring us all together.

[Matt_Wiley]

Interesting discussion. Sherman, I may take your advice on how you approach discussing universal reconciliation.

[Michael_Thompson]

interesting points everyone
another quick point, if it wasn’t for “isms” how could I ever have found this board?
if it was called, “guess what we believe” or " we are whatever" It wouldn’t have caught my interest!