The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Ive been looking up what israelites think


Im definitely no teacher either man. And while I may disagree I always enjoy hearing other peoples thoughts on subjects. Its a intriguing way at looking at things for sure. I appreciate your time to post in divulge your ideas to me.


MM, there were two old covenants. The one given to Abraham was true. The Levitical law was false. Although it contained some truth, foreign(pagan) practices and laws were added to it. So it was not entirely the truth of God. As Galatians 4:24-25 says “For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth t bondage, which is Hagar -for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is and is in bondage to her children.” This old covenant was being destroyed, while the old covenant of Abraham was being resurrected/ renewed. So the Israelites would be those who follow Jesus.

qaz, Those who follow Jesus are the body of Christ as 1 Cor. 12 27 says " Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually."


I appreciate your view but tend to see it a bit different. Ishmael was the descendant of the flesh and Isaac was the descendant of the promise. To my way of seeing it, there were not two ‘old covenants’ but Paul was pointing out how Abrahams situation was a foreshadow of the new covenant. The barren old woman who through the eyes of man could never bear a child did so through God’s help and intervention. The seed was brought through that promise. Hagar and thus Ishmael were simply man trying to do things in man’s own way.

And so much if not all of what we call the ‘new testament’ scriptures are about Christ and his apostles coming as the final and great prophecy to God’s people and trying to show the error of their ways… Which was them wanting to rely on the law (Ishmael/flesh) which was merely a foreshadow of the covenant of grace (Isaac/reconciliation) in Christ.


Thanks, and same here. The way I see it, the people of Israel had differing beliefs. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob followed the Spirit. Hagar/Ishmael represents the Jewish law which contained many foreign ways of the Egyptian gods. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel etc. all speak against it.