I've finally openly proclaimed my Universlaism on my Blog

[MithrandirOlorin]

I forget whether or not I"m allowed to post links here. But I want to copy and paste I what I wrote explaining why it took me so long to finally “come out” so to speak.

I’ve been hesitant till today (November 9th 2016, Central Time Zone) to go fully Public with this. Because until I was a Universlaism I had no view you could label Theologically Liberal, I was a Theologically Conservative Social Liberal and Political Libertarian with Communist leanings.

The most important project on this Blog to me is advocating for rethinking the traditional views on Sexual Morality especially Homosexuality. And in the sense that that message is for Christians skeptical of the idea I was afraid of someone going “He’s a Univeralist so of course he says anything goes”, even though the main dissertation and the vital post on Plato and Augustine were all made before I became a Universalist.

However, I have decided that in terms of it as a message for LGBT people. I decided it helps the Gospel to open with that you are going to Burn for Eternity. Regardless of if you agree with my theology or not. I’m just asking that if you are open to being a Christian and an assumption about what The Bible says about Homosexuality was one of the main things holding you back. To give my dissertation a read, others have made the argument before, but my argument is different, I never result to not taking ti literally.

I will be making more posts on the subject of Unviersalism. Talking about ways my own take on it may differ form others. Links to them will be added to this page at below this paragraph.

Feel free to tell me any typos I need to correct.

And out of curiosity, how many here would agree with my on Homosexuality not being a Sin?

[Eusebius]

Hi MithrandirOlorin,
You asked:
“And out of curiosity, how many here would agree with my on Homosexuality not being a Sin?”

Since you didn’t ask why we thought it is a sin or a missing of the mark to be homosexual, I won’t say . . . unless you ask.
So I will just answer your question: I consider homosexuality a sin or against nature, i.e. a missing of the mark.

I have not seen your blog. Can you tell us how you came to see God saving all mankind to be correct?

[Cindy_Skillman]

ERM–Gandolph (the other is too long for my poor little brain to spell),

You’re welcome to post a thread with a link to your blog. “Discussion about Anything” (or whatever it’s called) would be a good place. Then you can update that thread whenever you make a new post.

[MithrandirOlorin]

My bog is called Sola Scriptura Christina Liberty, it’s a BlogSpot blog.

Like many people, understanding the true meaning of Aionion/Aoinious was the key factor. I’ll be posted on my blog sometimes soon about the two verses that were key to my coming to that conclusion.

And another vital detail is Ezekiel 16 foretelling that even Sodom will be restored in the end.

Thank you Cindy

[nimblewill]

Do you believe that homosexuality will be practiced in the eventual and eternal kingdom?

[Eusebius]

Do you believe that homosexuality will be practiced in the eventual and eternal kingdom?

That is an excellent question. Seeing that homosexuality is “beside nature” i.e., men with men, effecting indecency, I can’t even imagine Christ doing that which is contrary to what is natural. We are to be created in His image, a new humanity.

[maintenanceman]

Do you believe that homosexuality will be practiced in the eventual and eternal kingdom?

Well, I would say that- that is not exactly the right question to ask. We know that people here and now marry, but Christ said (when some where trying to trip him up) there would be no marriage in the next life. So I guess folks may be able to do things in the here and now that we will not be able to do on the other side.

To MithrandirOlorin I would say, Read ‘ONE’ The Gospel According to Mike… By Michael Williams. It deals with both the subject you are talking about and the beauty of looking at the Gospel in a different light. I really liked it. Didn’t agree with some of it but have to say it really made me think! Available on Kindle for cheap.

Good reading!

[maintenanceman]

Do you believe that homosexuality will be practiced in the eventual and eternal kingdom?

No, it’s immoral, just like incest and bestiality.

qaz, you are trying to split a blade of grass with a double edged axe.

[maintenanceman]

MM, what do you mean?

O.K. The Idea of perverted homosexual sex is repulsive to all Christians, and to God obviously! So there is no problem there. Just like other forms of perverted sex (like you mentioned) are repulsive.

But at the end of the day, we have to ask ourselves if two same sex people are willing (are truly attracted to each other) to love each other (no matter how foreign it may seem to us) and commit to a life long relationship, shall we as a church, a state or as a people, deny them of that?

It is a question we have to ask. Once again, I’m not talking about perverted sex, which can happen with men and men, women and women, men and women, men and animals… you get the drift.

I’m talking about people who grow to love each other.

As much as I agree with you about the IDEA of homosexuality, I have grown (and that is important to understand) to accept the possibility that people can be attracted to someone of the same sex without perversion being involved.

I’ll wait for your reply.

[maintenanceman]

There’s no such thing as “non-perverted homosexuality” any more than there is non-perverted incest or bestiality. These people need training to overcome their confusion, not encouragement to indulge based on the premise that they can do so in a non-deviant way.

I appreciate your sentiment, so II respectably ask, will you be the one to cast the first stone?

[anon47460357]

So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw the first stone.” And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”

She said, “No one, Lord.”

And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

Let us not forget those vital last five words: “Go and sin no more.”

[maintenanceman]

So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw the first stone.” And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”

She said, “No one, Lord.”

And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

Let us not forget those vital last five words: “Go and sin no more.”

Well, that is very true, but I might counter that Christ did and prescribed many things that that were at least thought to be outside of the law. And his message was to love our neighbor and to love in general. His admonition to the woman (to go and sin no more) may well have been to go and honor your marriage covenant. So at some point we bring this to a head… Are we going to condemn people for perversion? Are we going to condemn people for loving each other?

We are a complex people.

[maintenanceman]

There’s no such thing as “non-perverted homosexuality” any more than there is non-perverted incest or bestiality. These people need training to overcome their confusion, not encouragement to indulge based on the premise that they can do so in a non-deviant way.

I appreciate your sentiment, so II respectably ask, will you be the one to cast the first stone?

I don’t support the death penalty for murderers and rapists, let alone gay people.

That is not the point here, but can you love them?

[davo]

There’s no such thing as “non-perverted homosexuality” any more than there is non-perverted incest or bestiality. These people need training to overcome their confusion, not encouragement to indulge based on the premise that they can do so in a non-deviant way.

I appreciate your sentiment, so II respectably ask, will you be the one to cast the first stone?

I don’t support the death penalty for murderers and rapists, let alone gay people.

qaz, you seem pretty strong in your view… so on what basis would you NOT support the death penalty? given this…

Lev 20:13 If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

[Eusebius]

qaz, you seem pretty strong in your view… so on what basis would you NOT support the death penalty? given this…

Lev 20:13

If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

Hi davo,
Christians are not under the law of Moses and so are not bound to perform its requirements. The law was only given to Israel.

God gives people over to do that which is not befitting due to holding Him in an improper understanding. We should not encourage them in their rebellion toward God, should we? Nor should we tell them it is ok and normal to be doing that which is not sexually correct.

“because, knowing God, not as God do they glorify or thank Him, but vain were they made in their reasonings, and darkened is their unintelligent heart. Alleging themselves to be wise, they are made stupid, and they change the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of an image of a corruptible human being and flying creatures and quadrupeds and reptiles. Wherefore God gives them over, in the lusts of their hearts, to the uncleanness of dishonoring their bodies among themselves, those who alter the truth of God into the lie, and are venerated, and offer divine service to the creature rather than the Creator, Who is blessed for the eons! Amen! Therefore God gives them over to dishonorable passions. For their females, besides, alter the natural use into that which is beside nature. Likewise also the males, besides, leaving the natural use of the female, were inflamed in their craving for one another, males with males effecting indecency, and getting back in themselves the retribution of their deception which must be.” (Rom 1:21-27)

It seems to me that homosexuality is a disciplinary measure. God loves them and wants to correct them. At least that is my thought on the matter.

[davo]

It seems to me that homosexuality is a disciplinary measure. God loves them and wants to correct them. At least that is my thought on the matter.

But Eusebius, of course you’d say that… they have NO free-will thus God sovereignly predestined them to be such. Weak argument!

The basis for my opposition to the death penalty is the story in John of the woman caught in adultery.

It’s interesting qaz that you would appeal to the example of “adultery” in flaming ‘homosexuality’ in terms of perverse immorality AND YET in the church, let alone beyond, “sexual immorality” via “fornication” and “adultery” let alone those who PRACTICE… idolatry, theft, greed, drunkenness, extortion, uncleanness, lewdness, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambition, dissension, heresies, envy, murder, revelries… to name but a few, AND THESE are more an issue IN THE CHURCH than homosexuality and yet on these things — deafening silence. This is rank hypocrisy in that you say NOTHING on these things, BUT get all self-righteous around ‘homosexuality’ — where is your consistency? Again

[maintenanceman]

That is not the point here, but can you love them?

Of course. That doesn’t mean condoning their sinful behaviors.

Ahhh, now we’re getting to the nitty gritty The question is, How would you deal with this issue?

Incarceration?
shunning?
Spitting?
Flipping them the bird?
Big bouncers at the church entrance?
Deportation?
Special ed classes?

We have, at least at this point, lost the use of legislation, ( here in the US.) So how do we deal with these, these sinners?

I’m open to suggestions.

[anon47460357]

Davo, I’m against those other things too. We weren’t having a discussion on them, so why would I bring them up?

I’ve yet to see a church advertise itself as pro-adultery, pro-fornication, pro-drunkenness, etc but i have seen plenty of churches advertise as being pro-“LGBT”.

Indeed.

Every culture has its particular spiritual blind spot. Our culture’s spiritual blind spot is Eros/sexuality/romantic love. Pretty much anything goes, and the current favorite part of this trend is homosexuality. (To get a better perspective on it, imagine a culture whose blind spot is theft. Further imagine that their current favorite part of this trend was shoplifting. Imagine pro-shoplifting churches, and a shoplifting movement, and silly statements about shoplifterophobes, etc. The rest of Christendom would rightly say, “What is wrong with those people? How did they get so bizarre?”)

It is very simple: Who was right during the time of the pagan Roman Empire? Was it the Christians, who allowed for no sex at all outside of monogamous marriage? No divorce was allowed, and remarriage after divorce was recognized as adultery. There was no wishy-washiness about relationships, and feelings, and love. Marriage was recognized as a holy icon, with the husband representing Christ and the wife representing the Church. Both were called to the agape of martyrdom. They were called to raise up their children to also be holy martyrs in Christ’s Church. It was all a flame of sacrifice.

On the other side was the pagan Roman culture of persecution, abortion, contraception, divorce, adultery, homosexuality, incest, bestiality, and the whole sordid mess. In the terminology of our apostate culture, Nero and his lackeys were hip, progressive, tolerant, and loving. The Christians were intolerant, bigoted, unreasonable, and full of hate.

I stand with the martyrs and with Christendom in general.

[anon47460357]

How would you deal with this issue?

Incarceration?
shunning?
Spitting?
Flipping them the bird?
Big bouncers at the church entrance?
Deportation?
Special ed classes?

We have, at least at this point, lost the use of legislation, ( here in the US.) So how do we deal with these, these sinners?

I’m open to suggestions.

The Orthodox Church deals with it in the same way as she does with any other sin: Those who engage in sin without repentance exclude themselves from the communion chalice. Communion is reserved for the repentant. Those who reject Christ’s truth literally cannot partake of communion, even if they were to hide their unrepentant sin and swallow some of the consecrated bread and wine. Their “communion” would be nothing other than an abomination and blasphemy.

The fearful consequence of any sin whatsoever is the same: the impairment of one’s ability to experience the peace and joy of Christ’s Holy Spirit. Unrepentant sinners can experience transient pleasure, but the peace that passes understanding passes right over their heads. Only those who struggle against their passions in obedience to Christ can (and do) experience the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. One single moment of such peace is worth unspeakably more than all the pleasures Satan offers.

[anon47460357]

For sexual sanity (so little in evidence in our culture), read C. S. Lewis’s Out of the Silent Planet and Perelandra. They are breaths of fresh air.