The Evangelical Universalist Forum

I've finally openly proclaimed my Universlaism on my Blog


I forget whether or not I"m allowed to post links here. But I want to copy and paste I what I wrote explaining why it took me so long to finally “come out” so to speak.

I’ve been hesitant till today (November 9th 2016, Central Time Zone) to go fully Public with this. Because until I was a Universlaism I had no view you could label Theologically Liberal, I was a Theologically Conservative Social Liberal and Political Libertarian with Communist leanings.

The most important project on this Blog to me is advocating for rethinking the traditional views on Sexual Morality especially Homosexuality. And in the sense that that message is for Christians skeptical of the idea I was afraid of someone going “He’s a Univeralist so of course he says anything goes”, even though the main dissertation and the vital post on Plato and Augustine were all made before I became a Universalist.

However, I have decided that in terms of it as a message for LGBT people. I decided it helps the Gospel to open with that you are going to Burn for Eternity. Regardless of if you agree with my theology or not. I’m just asking that if you are open to being a Christian and an assumption about what The Bible says about Homosexuality was one of the main things holding you back. To give my dissertation a read, others have made the argument before, but my argument is different, I never result to not taking ti literally.

I will be making more posts on the subject of Unviersalism. Talking about ways my own take on it may differ form others. Links to them will be added to this page at below this paragraph.

Feel free to tell me any typos I need to correct.

And out of curiosity, how many here would agree with my on Homosexuality not being a Sin?


Hi MithrandirOlorin,
You asked:
“And out of curiosity, how many here would agree with my on Homosexuality not being a Sin?”

Since you didn’t ask why we thought it is a sin or a missing of the mark to be homosexual, I won’t say . . . unless you ask.
So I will just answer your question: I consider homosexuality a sin or against nature, i.e. a missing of the mark.

I have not seen your blog. Can you tell us how you came to see God saving all mankind to be correct?


ERM–Gandolph (the other is too long for my poor little brain to spell),

You’re welcome to post a thread with a link to your blog. “Discussion about Anything” (or whatever it’s called) would be a good place. Then you can update that thread whenever you make a new post.


My bog is called Sola Scriptura Christina Liberty, it’s a BlogSpot blog.

Like many people, understanding the true meaning of Aionion/Aoinious was the key factor. I’ll be posted on my blog sometimes soon about the two verses that were key to my coming to that conclusion.

And another vital detail is Ezekiel 16 foretelling that even Sodom will be restored in the end.

Thank you Cindy


Do you believe that homosexuality will be practiced in the eventual and eternal kingdom?


That is an excellent question. Seeing that homosexuality is “beside nature” i.e., men with men, effecting indecency, I can’t even imagine Christ doing that which is contrary to what is natural. We are to be created in His image, a new humanity.


Well, I would say that- that is not exactly the right question to ask. We know that people here and now marry, but Christ said (when some where trying to trip him up) there would be no marriage in the next life. So I guess folks may be able to do things in the here and now that we will not be able to do on the other side. :astonished:

To MithrandirOlorin I would say, Read ‘ONE’ The Gospel According to Mike… By Michael Williams. It deals with both the subject you are talking about and the beauty of looking at the Gospel in a different light. I really liked it. Didn’t agree with some of it but have to say it really made me think! Available on Kindle for cheap. :smiley:

Good reading!


No, it’s immoral, just like incest and bestiality.


qaz, you are trying to split a blade of grass with a double edged axe.


MM, what do you mean?


O.K. The Idea of perverted homosexual sex is repulsive to all Christians, and to God obviously! So there is no problem there. Just like other forms of perverted sex (like you mentioned) are repulsive.

But at the end of the day, we have to ask ourselves if two same sex people are willing (are truly attracted to each other) to love each other (no matter how foreign it may seem to us) and commit to a life long relationship, shall we as a church, a state or as a people, deny them of that?

It is a question we have to ask. Once again, I’m not talking about perverted sex, which can happen with men and men, women and women, men and women, men and animals… you get the drift.

I’m talking about people who grow to love each other.

As much as I agree with you about the IDEA of homosexuality, I have grown (and that is important to understand) to accept the possibility that people can be attracted to someone of the same sex without perversion being involved.

I’ll wait for your reply.


There’s no such thing as “non-perverted homosexuality” any more than there is non-perverted incest or bestiality. These people need training to overcome their confusion, not encouragement to indulge based on the premise that they can do so in a non-deviant way.


I appreciate your sentiment, so II respectably ask, will you be the one to cast the first stone?


Let us not forget those vital last five words: “Go and sin no more.”


I don’t support the death penalty for murderers and rapists, let alone gay people.


Well, that is very true, but I might counter that Christ did and prescribed many things that that were at least thought to be outside of the law. And his message was to love our neighbor and to love in general. His admonition to the woman (to go and sin no more) may well have been to go and honor your marriage covenant. So at some point we bring this to a head… Are we going to condemn people for perversion? Are we going to condemn people for loving each other?

We are a complex people.


That is not the point here, but can you love them?


qaz, you seem pretty strong in your view… so on what basis would you NOT support the death penalty? given this…


Hi davo,
Christians are not under the law of Moses and so are not bound to perform its requirements. The law was only given to Israel.

God gives people over to do that which is not befitting due to holding Him in an improper understanding. We should not encourage them in their rebellion toward God, should we? Nor should we tell them it is ok and normal to be doing that which is not sexually correct.

“because, knowing God, not as God do they glorify or thank Him, but vain were they made in their reasonings, and darkened is their unintelligent heart. Alleging themselves to be wise, they are made stupid, and they change the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of an image of a corruptible human being and flying creatures and quadrupeds and reptiles. Wherefore God gives them over, in the lusts of their hearts, to the uncleanness of dishonoring their bodies among themselves, those who alter the truth of God into the lie, and are venerated, and offer divine service to the creature rather than the Creator, Who is blessed for the eons! Amen! Therefore God gives them over to dishonorable passions. For their females, besides, alter the natural use into that which is beside nature. Likewise also the males, besides, leaving the natural use of the female, were inflamed in their craving for one another, males with males effecting indecency, and getting back in themselves the retribution of their deception which must be.” (Rom 1:21-27)

It seems to me that homosexuality is a disciplinary measure. God loves them and wants to correct them. At least that is my thought on the matter.


The basis for my opposition to the death penalty is the story in John of the woman caught in adultery.

Homosexuality is condemned in the NT. In addition to Romans 1, which Eusebius has quoted, there is:

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Matthew 19
4 And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”