The Evangelical Universalist Forum

I've made peace with universalism... for now

Evangelical Universalism Arguments for Evangelical Universalism
#1

Hello all,

(Warning: long post. You either care or you don’t. I won’t be offended if you don’t, I promise) :slight_smile:

In 2013, I undertook a study on what the Bible teaches about damnation, and I eventually gave up my belief that Hell was a place of eternal suffering and obtained the new belief that Hell resulted in oblivion (Annihilationism aka conditional immortality). Some time passed, and my interests in the subject were piqued again and I wanted to look into Universalism (the third option).

I looked into the topic with the help of this site, but found that the exegetical details of the Universalist arguments were just way beyond anything I could understand. So I said that I would remain an Annihilationist but be a hopeful universalist (that is, Annihilationism was my default position in regards to the doctrine of eternal destiny, but universalism was a definite possibility).

Being reasonably satisfied with this conclusion, I logged this tremendously heavy issue away in that corner of my brain that stores my knowledge of how to play the saxophone, and the memory of my entire ninth grade year in high school. :smiley: In other words, I thought I was done with this issue.

However, the thoughts kept coming back up. I kept staying up at night thinking about those individuals who would be annihilated, who would never know God. I prayed. I even had a few dreams about it.

And now I’m tired of lying to myself. In my heart of hearts I believe in universalism and the Scriptures seem to be ambiguous on the issue. There are biblical, theological, philosophical, historical, patristic and emotional arguments for universalism and by gosh I don’t have the time to wade through them. It’s basically what I believe and the other problem texts will either be cleared up or will continue to be ambiguous no matter how skilled I become at exegesis.

If it turns out universalism isn’t true, I don’t imagine God would actually be mad at me, neither would I have prevented anyone else from entering the Kingdom by holding to it, since one person holding erroneous doctrine does not destroy the Kingdom. And even if I do believe in universal reconciliation, I will not be very bullish in promoting it, because at least some of the passages are ambiguous and it is not an essential part of the Gospel message. Plus, preaching universalism to non-Christians may not be pastorally wise, even though it may be true. At the very worst, if universalism doesn’t turn out to be true, God would explain to me what the deal is, and I would accept it.

So for now, I will switch my view from Annihilationist and hopeful universalist to universalist but possible Annihilationist (that is, universalism is my default position, but Annihilation is a possibility, rather than the other way around).

What does this mean for my pastoral career? Probably not much. God willing, I will be admitted into one of the best Protestant seminaries in the country, and I doubt they will ask what my views on Hell are before they admit me. My answer could probably be, “That’s why I’m coming here, to learn what the Bible teaches about such things!” Strictly speaking, this wouldn’t be lying, because I am always open to learning new things, especially from world-class scholars. After I get my Master’s, God may lead me to get a doctorate, but I believe He would lead me to go to a secular university and of course, they wouldn’t care.

As for ordination in the Anglican Church, I could easily be an Annihilationist and hopeful universalist and my view is probably non-dogmatic enough to please most classically Anglican or Anglo-Catholic parishes. Plus, it is not as if hellfire and brimstone are topics discussed frequently by Anglo-Catholics anyway (on a side note, I have to admit, God is really opening my eyes to the beauty of Anglo-Catholicism! I used to be kind of prejudiced against it, but now I really see it’s attraction. That, and “Anglo-Orthodoxy”. I think Randy Kemp posted about that once).

So, I could drag this whole “study on Universalism” thing out, but I don’t want to. At a certain point, you have to just stop analyzing stuff and just be honest with yourself. That happened when I left Roman Catholicism and eventually ended up in Anglicanism. Sure, I prayed and read Scriptures and poured over material and researched all sides of the debate, but at a certain point you just have to stop over-analyzing and trust Him to lead you. This morning, as I prayed the Daily Office with the parish priest, then celebrated Mass with the Rite I Liturgy from the Book of Common Prayer, I received a confirmation from God that I was in the right place, a confirmation that goes beyond research or head knowledge. And so it is with universalism.

I know what my heart is saying, and the truth of this subject is way beyond my ability to understand or to even minimally affect. I trust God that He will lead me into the truth and I would rather let the liberating hope of universalism be one of the backdrops of my faith rather than something else. Now there will be no more staying up at night lamenting all the annihilated, no more crying over not being able to see grandfather ever again. I have a real hope now.

Thank you for all your help in getting me to think about this issue. Back into storage it will go. I need to stop thinking and starting doing! There is work to be done in the Kingdom!

God’s richest blessings,

Warren Conrad

#2

Grace and peace brother :slight_smile:

#3

Orthopraxy time! :mrgreen:

(That should be a drink. :laughing: )

#4

I just want to share a little exchange I had with a non-Christian. I didn’t “preach universalism” to him, but I shared with him the ultimate reconciliation of all to God as I saw it in the Bible. His response: “Oh, if only that were true!”

It seems some think sharing our belief in the eventual reconciliation of all with non-Christians is some kind of deterrent to them, that they are more unlikely to become Christians since “they are going to be in heaven anyway”. I think it is just the opposite. When non-Christians are presented with the true character of God—that He desires to save all, they may come to see that He is not an ogre that punishes the majority of mankind with everlasting misery in hell, but that He is LOVE itself, and has absolute LOVE for every individual.

#5

So, I could drag this whole “study on Universalism” thing out, but I don’t want to. At a certain point, you have to just stop analyzing stuff and just be honest with yourself.

Good pathway you are on bro. My position is that i believe that salvation definetely is possible and likely after death and it may or may not lead to UR.
But the fact that folks simply have this post-mortem opportunity is just, and that is what gives me peace.

#6

That is such a beautiful, encouraging testimony, and I agree with your conclusion whole-heartedly :slight_smile:

#7

Also Steve,

Sometimes we just have to rest our minds, let our spirit breathe, and trust God to reveal as we walk along the way. it is not our ability to reason and dig. It is the grace of God to shine His light and He is always faithful to do so.

#8

I’ve had similar thoughts Paidon. When I think of the Gospel, the “Good News”, it is God’s love, that God loved us so much that He became a man to show us how to live and deliver us from the fear of death by overcoming death through the ressurection. God loves us so “repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand, within reach, something we can participate in and be citizens of!”

And frankly, Infernalism and Annihilationism are NOT “Good News”! In Infernalism and Annihilationism love fails to reconcile and Jesus fails to save. Love gives up and does not persevere. Love keeps a record of wrongs. Which all of course are not aspects of real love.

The Great Commission is to preach the Good News as we live and to make disciples, baptizing and teaching them what we’ve learned.

I too came to a point where I had to be truthful with myself and others that I had come to believe in UR. This openness about what I’ve come to believe has cost me relationally speaking, but I trust that God will make all things right ultimately.

#9

Exactly. Before I recognized the truth of universalism, I used to agonize over Hell. No wonder to so many atheism is “good news”: “Hey, everybody! We don’t have to worry about Hell because every single religious concept is false!” Compared to Hell, oblivion is bliss.

#10

That’s exactly it, Geoffrey

Compared to hell, pretty much ANYTHING is bliss. A lot of these atheists are young, or were young when they BECAME atheists. They didn’t have the sophistication to realize that the religion they were raised in was not ALL religion, or not even ALL Christianity. It was one little pocket (often a very, very fundamentalistic pocket) of one denomination of one faith, and it in most cases had very little to do with actual faith at all. I agree with you, and with Sherman and Paidion. I worried and worried over what the “gospel” even was (before I “crossed over”), because it didn’t seem like very good news to me, either. I mean, how could it possibly be good news that YOU can be saved, but your beloved little saintly Hindu grandma is burning in hell? FOREVER. And as if that’s not enough, they add another “AND EVER” to that.

That’s the kind of “good news” that literally drives people crazy. It certainly drives them to atheism.

And Warren, I wonder whether that’s even going to be a problem (being universalist, I mean). Maybe by the time you graduate, that WILL be the default (or at least a common and accepted) position. It certainly seems to be coming into greater and greater acceptance.

#11

On top of Infernalism being “Bad News”, it is also a primary reason most Christians are NOT active in Evangelism. No one likes to be the bearer of Bad News! And Infernalism is the worst of “Bad News”. I mean, it can’t get much worse that “If you don’t…(fill in the blank)… then you go to Hell.” Now that’s Bad News. “God loves you, died for you so you can live, but if you reject Him you’re going to burn forever in Hell” is Bad News, not Good.

#12

I agree, but the idea of infernalism does motivate some to evangelsim.

There’s a woman in the church I go to who often prays that God will save such and such so they don’t have to go to hell. And she is qwuite active in speaking to people.

It is backwards, though. Much better to have a message of completely good news when talking to people.

MIke

#13

I think it is worthy to warn people to flee from the wrath to come, it is just unfortunate that the enemy has subverted the truth and turned that impassioned warning into a Dantian nightmare of incredible proportions.

I would like to hear that message proclaimed sorta like this.

“Hey, you can come the easy way, or you can come the hard way. Either way, you 're comin, but if you keep actin out like you do and treatin people like you do it aint gonna be easy for you on the Day when you stand before the One who has fire in His eyes and a two edged sword comin out of His mouth. You oughta take this deal now, while you still can, because the Day is comin, and you dont wanna wind up havin to get operated on like you are gonna be operated on” :laughing: