The Evangelical Universalist Forum

Jesus Christ IS Reconciliation


#1

“And He is [the] propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”

Please note:

  1. Jesus Christ IS propitiation.

  2. He is propitiation for our sins (all of us).

  3. Jesus Christ IS propitiation for the sins of the WHOLE world.

  4. Whole= holos.

  5. Holos is NOT monos or monon.

  6. Jesus Christ is NOT propitiation for our sins ONLY/monon, but for the sins of the WHOLE world.

Yes, my friends, the Saviour of all mankind is the hilasmos of the holos!

Are our broadest hopes broad enough? Shall there be a nook or abyss, in all the universe of God, finally unlightened by the Cross? Shall there be a sin, or sorrow, or pain unhealed? Is the very universe, is creation in all its extent, a field wide enough for the Son of God?


#2

FineLinen, how to you understand “propitiation”? Actually that is not a good translation of “ιλασμος.” The word “propitiation” means “appeasing” and suggests that Jesus has appeased the Father by dying on our behalf so that God punished Him instead of us for our sins. That sounds a whole lot like injustice to me.

The connotation of the word “ιλασμος” is actually “a means of mercy.”

And He Himself is the means of mercy concerning our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world (1 John 2:2)

Jesus has provided a way to make available God’s enabling grace, so that we (or anyone else in the whole world) are able to live consistently righteous lives. What a mercy that is!

For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of all people, training us to renounce impiety and worldly passions, and to live sensible, righteous, and pious lives in the present age, expecting the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of the great God and of our Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own who are zealous for good works. Declare these things; encourage and reprove with total command. Let no one disregard you. (Titus 2:11-15)


#3

Dear Paidion: The following are a few of the translations of 1 John 2.2

https://www.biblestudytools.com/1-john/2-2-compare.html

https://studybible.info/vines/Propitiation

http://greater-emmanuel.org/jmt/

My friend Jonathan Mitchell I believe is hitting the mark with his N.T. translation. God needs zero appeasing. He is, and always has been for us. Sin is a disruption from our Father in which all the resources of the Glory are arrayed.

And He Himself exists continually being a propitiatory shelter around our sins (the act by which our sins are made ineffective, effecting appeasement), yet not only around those pertaining to us, but rather, even around the whole ordered system (world; cosmos; universe)!
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#4

Don, we have been going back and forth forever about this,

The cut to the chase is, you don’t want anyone to be okay with God if they have not repented in YOUR view. This is kind of important because we begin to see your view as a modern version of the Israelite necessary to the Law. :wink:

Just let us all be sinners and working at what we need to do. You are continually heaping things on people that have to be done. Everyone knows what God wants from them in their heart.

Leave them F*ing be. I am very understanding of your knowledge of Greek and your proclaimed position for God, but my Gosh man, we are all different.

Rejoice that we are not all the same man…

Love ya.


#5

Why do you make this statement and then wink, Chad? Does that mean you don’t really believe what you have asserted here? On the other hand, if you do really believe what you have asserted, how do you know what I want or don’t want concerning the matter? And what do you mean by “a modern version of the Israelite necessary to the Law”?