All men will confess Christ. You can deny it - but it’s irrevocable. You have to deal with it for your argument to be complete and coherent. So you can say any number of things to explain it - but you cannot refute it. No one can.
I find it interesting how much of the scripture the ECT position has to ignore. It literally flies in the face of many individual passages, as well as the overall testimony of scripture.
Indeed, Scripture is full of references.
Jesus said:
Luke 13:35
Look, your house is left to you desolate (the judgment of Gehenna). I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’ "
John 12:32
But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw (“helkuo” in a future tense, to literally to draw, drag off forcefully) all men to myself."
Isaiah said:
Isaiah 45:21-24
Declare what is to be, present it— let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the LORD ? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me.
"Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear allegiance.
They will say of me, ‘In the LORD alone are righteousness and strength.’ " All who have raged against him will come to him and be ashamed (for their rebellion).
Paul says:
Romans 14:11 **
For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God**."
Philippians 2:10
"That at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth. and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Peter says:
Acts 2:21
“Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Acts 10:36
"The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ, He is Lord of all men!
Paul says:
Romans 10:13
“Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Some people have erroneously used Matthew 7:22, where Jesus told those who did miracles in His Name, that He never knew them and cast them away from His presence as the counter to this mind set. However, doing miracles in His Name when He did not know you, is different calling upon Him for Salvation when they are sent away…
How about this? Whenever Jesus or the New Testament talks about destruction or hell, we remember that it might not be literal or it might not be referring to final states. And whenever we see reference to “all in all” or something similar, we remember that this too might not be literal or might no refer to final states. Let’s abandon rigorous hermeneutics entirely!
This way we can all create our own cute little individual systems and all agree to disagree. We will then have no need to talk to one another - no more reasoning together. Sectarian isolation will become the rule and unity will become obsolete, but you never know - all Jesus’ harping on unity might have been figurative.
Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’ "But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’ "Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’ "But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’
There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God.
Weeping, gnashing teeth, seeing Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the prophets, people from all the world flowing together to a feast… nope nothing about this indicates that Jesus is speaking about the afterlife. Or at least it is possible to explain away all such indications.
I don’t have it all figured out. But what gets me is that people with different claims to defend who are going to do their best to make the Bible say what they want will go to the trouble of communicating. People go into a discussion for the purpose of talking past one another. Verbal masturbation.
Maybe go into a discussion hoping to find something new, hoping to have your preconceptions dashed…
I will say this, as an agnostic on the matter of universalism: nobody answered the challenges of the specific scripture that BA asked about. Y’all dodged it and went elsewhere. I think that one person offered a solution- that it refers to this life. The rest of you dodged it. Correct me if I’m off here.
This is several discussions split over about 5 different threads. So whatever you are reading, you are reading from limited perspective. Loaded questions and making comments on things that are not discussed here here from in the beginning, made it really impossible to answer BA in this thread.
Without his hat on, does anyone else think Craig looks like Howie Mandel?
Note that Mat.7:13-14 is in the literary context of the Sermon on the Mount, chapters 5-7. In this sermon Matthew presents Jesus radically challenging the doctrine, attititudes, and practices of the Pharisees. In fact, a repeated phrase is “you’ve heard it said”; this phrase references the “Oral Law”, the traditions of the fathers, the verbal commentary of the Pharisees on the Written Law of Moses.
Anyhow, Jesus is speaking metaphorically of the importance of having right doctrine, right attitudes, right relationships, right actions and lifestyle - righteousness! Through righteous we embrace and live in eternal life, the kingdom of God NOW! It’s not talking about us getting into heaven, but about getting heaven into us! The message of Christ is primarily that the kingdom of God “at hand”, a present reality, and not so much a distant kingdom of the future!
I find it’s always best to seek to interpret a passage based on it’s context, its literary, cultural, historical, and authorial context, being careful to not read into it more than what the context warrants.