Jesus Said You Must Be Alive To Receive Eternal Life!

[Sherman]

Everyone

I have repeatedly asked for evidence of anyone receiving post- mortem salvation and no one has been able to show me such evidence. I usually get a response to show them evidence of anyone not being able to receive post- mortem salvation, touche.

I’ve actually shared this with you before Revival, but here goes again. The first place I see post-mortem salvation is in the story of Jonah, who drowned, was in Sheol (grave, realm of the dead), in torment repented and cried out to God who saved him and even restored him to life.

Next I see the concept of post-mortem salvation in Paul’s affirmation of baptism for the dead in 1 Cor. 15. He notes this in passing as evidence of why the Corinthians should believe in the ressurection of the dead. But none-the-less he speaks of it affirmatively. During the first century, prayers, alms and even baptism for the dead was a common practice meant to aid departed loved ones in their transition into the presence of God.

Next, Peter speaks of Jesus preaching to the spirits in prison, particularly those who rejected the Word and Salvation of God under Noah’s ministry. He preached to them so that they might be judged and have life.

And of course, “IF” John’s vision in Revelation is meant to be understood futuristically, then we have the nations and kings who throughout the other visions in Revelation are subject to the spirit of the anti-Christ, eventually worshipping Jesus, entering the New Jerusalem and paying homage to God.

Of course, scripture is by far predominantly our present reality, being delivered from this “present evil age” as Paul calls it, and having a relationship with God NOW; not about what happens in the after-life. Even so, to me this is more than sufficient evidence to indicate that there will be plenty of repentance going on in the life-to-come. In fact, it was studying scripture concerning Judgment and punishment of sin that freed be to believe that Jesus is the savior of all for I found that the purpose of God’s judgment and punishment of sin is for our good, to change us, that though weeping lasts for a season, joy eventually comes.

But I’ve shared this before.

But to believe in a doctrine of anyone actually receiving post- mortem salvation without scriptural evidence would be believing in speculation… that alone is enough not to believe in post- mortem salvation, but I believe I have found the evidence against it that many have asked for. I don’t know if this forum has been challenged from this angle before, but without further due, I present to you… Romans 6:23 and John 11:26.

Romans 6:23
The wages of sin is death. What kind of death? Spiritual death. The wages of sin is separation from God… the consequence of sin.

Note that Paul does not say “spiritual death”, but that is what you’ve added. Without further qualification, based upon “death’s” most common usage in Paul and elsewhere in scripture, if we must “assume” a meaning then the most common one would be the correct one to assume, which is normal physical death. Because Adam sinned we shall all die. Paul has just affirmed this repeatedly in the previous chapter. To read into it “spiritual death” is, well, to “read it into” this passage, eisegesis.

I said that to say this: What does Jesus say in John 11:26?
John 11:26 6 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

The Greek reads like this:** Everyone living and believing on me shall by no means die forever.** Therefore if one is dead in their sins, they are not alive. And if they are dead, they cannot be alive and believe to receive eternal life as John 11:26 affirms.

This I believe delivers a serious blow to post-mortem salvation.

First note that you’re pulling a piece of a passage from a different book, author, context and trying to use it to prove a point about a completely different passage. It’s much better, I believe, to base one’s understanding of any given passage upon its own context.

In the context of this passage, Jesus is affirming that it is through faith in Him that people have age-to-come (aionian, eternal) life. He is not addressing what happens to people post-mortem, but is addressing the reality that people can have, experience age-to-come life in the present though we be surrounded by death. To read into this some affirmation about there being no possibility of repentance and reconciliation through Christ in the life-to-come is, well again, “reading into it”, eisegesis. I believe it’s best to stick with what the passage actually says, and not read into it more than what is there.

[Revival]

Revival,

I’m not making this up, snitzel. Read Rev 20:11-15 for yourself to see what happens to unbelievers. I got news for you they ain’t physically alive in the lake of fire! Yes, death is abolished for the ones who received the reconciliation not for the ones who didn’t.

To clarify, then, in your theology, death reigns forever over the lost?

Going to bed now. Pick up later. Good night and God bless.

You as well. I work nights and am a husband by day, so my sleep schedule is kind of interesting.

The second death recorded in Rev 20:14 does reign forever over the lost. What does this mean? Physical death is the separation of the spirit from the body, and spiritual death is the separation of the spirit from God. Spiritual death means being void of the life or nature of God and separated from Him. (which was caused by sin in Romans 5:12).

Physical death and spiritual death culminate in the “second death” (Revelation 20:14). The second death is an eternal separation experienced by all who are void of the life of God. 2 Thess 1:8-9.

[Revival]

Everyone

I have repeatedly asked for evidence of anyone receiving post- mortem salvation and no one has been able to show me such evidence. I usually get a response to show them evidence of anyone not being able to receive post- mortem salvation, touche.

I’ve actually shared this with you before Revival, but here goes again. The first place I see post-mortem salvation is in the story of Jonah, who drowned, was in Sheol (grave, realm of the dead), in torment repented and cried out to God who saved him and even restored him to life.

Next I see the concept of post-mortem salvation in Paul’s affirmation of baptism for the dead in 1 Cor. 15. He notes this in passing as evidence of why the Corinthians should believe in the ressurection of the dead. But none-the-less he speaks of it affirmatively. During the first century, prayers, alms and even baptism for the dead was a common practice meant to aid departed loved ones in their transition into the presence of God.

Next, Peter speaks of Jesus preaching to the spirits in prison, particularly those who rejected the Word and Salvation of God under Noah’s ministry. He preached to them so that they might be judged and have life.

And of course, “IF” John’s vision in Revelation is meant to be understood futuristically, then we have the nations and kings who throughout the other visions in Revelation are subject to the spirit of the anti-Christ, eventually worshipping Jesus, entering the New Jerusalem and paying homage to God.

Of course, scripture is by far predominantly our present reality, being delivered from this “present evil age” as Paul calls it, and having a relationship with God NOW; not about what happens in the after-life. Even so, to me this is more than sufficient evidence to indicate that there will be plenty of repentance going on in the life-to-come. In fact, it was studying scripture concerning Judgment and punishment of sin that freed be to believe that Jesus is the savior of all for I found that the purpose of God’s judgment and punishment of sin is for our good, to change us, that though weeping lasts for a season, joy eventually comes.

But I’ve shared this before.

But to believe in a doctrine of anyone actually receiving post- mortem salvation without scriptural evidence would be believing in speculation… that alone is enough not to believe in post- mortem salvation, but I believe I have found the evidence against it that many have asked for. I don’t know if this forum has been challenged from this angle before, but without further due, I present to you… Romans 6:23 and John 11:26.

Romans 6:23
The wages of sin is death. What kind of death? Spiritual death. The wages of sin is separation from God… the consequence of sin.

Note that Paul does not say “spiritual death”, but that is what you’ve added. Without further qualification, based upon “death’s” most common usage in Paul and elsewhere in scripture, if we must “assume” a meaning then the most common one would be the correct one to assume, which is normal physical death. Because Adam sinned we shall all die. Paul has just affirmed this repeatedly in the previous chapter. To read into it “spiritual death” is, well, to “read it into” this passage, eisegesis.

I said that to say this: What does Jesus say in John 11:26?
John 11:26 6 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

The Greek reads like this:** Everyone living and believing on me shall by no means die forever.**

Therefore if one is dead in their sins, they are not alive. And if they are dead, they cannot be alive and believe to receive eternal life as John 11:26 affirms.

This I believe delivers a serious blow to post-mortem salvation.
First note that you’re pulling a piece of a passage from a different book, author, context and trying to use it to prove a point about a completely different passage. It’s much better, I believe, to base one’s understanding of any given passage upon its own context.

In the context of this passage, Jesus is affirming that it is through faith in Him that people have age-to-come (aionian, eternal) life. He is not addressing what happens to people post-mortem, but is addressing the reality that people can have, experience age-to-come life in the present though we be surrounded by death. To read into this some affirmation about there being no possibility of repentance and reconciliation through Christ in the life-to-come is, well again, “reading into it”, eisegesis. I believe it’s best to stick with what the passage actually says, and not read into it more than what is there.

You should practice what you preach because you are using “reading into it” exegesis.

1. I see what happened to Jonah as a type and shadow of the completed work of Jesus at the cross.(Matt 12:40).And absolutley nothing to do with post mortem salvation.

2. 1 Peter 3:19-20… Luke 16 is a picture of two different holding places for the OT dead before the cross. Only hell remains…(paradise is no longer needed to hold the righteous because people now receive the life of God when they are born again and go straight to heaven when they die). Receiving salvation in the OT was not the same as it is today. Notice the richman could see and have a convo with Abraham who was being held in a different place where the righteous were held (paradise). Jesus came down gave spiritual life to the righteous and then turned his attention to the ones who I believe repented before they drowned and died during the flood(disobedient) in hell. After giving them the spiritual life needed to go to heaven Jesus then led the multiple of captives with him and ascended to heaven Eph 4:8. This will not be repeated.

3. 1 Cor 15:29… Paul was making a point to the Corinthian church that the resurrection is real and will happen when Jesus returns because they were told there is no resurrection. Pagans baptized the dead it was not practiced by the church. Look closely at this verse “if the dead are not raised, then why are they baptized for the dead?” Paul did not say we ( the church) Baptizing the dead was not a doctrine taught by Jesus or the Apostles. The pagans practiced it ( which also was the predominate religion in Corinth before Christianity so they understood what Paul was saying) Pauls point was telling the believers that even the pagans believe in the resurrection because they were being told it would not happen.

4. I don’t see those kings being the same kings in Rev 19 because Rev 14:9-11 says this is an impossibility and they are still in the LOF.

But Jesus does say you must be** Living **to believe and receive eternal life in John 11:26.

[snitzelhoff]

Revival,

*The second death recorded in Rev 20:14 does reign forever over the lost. What does this mean? Physical death is the separation of the spirit from the body, and spiritual death is the separation of the spirit from God. Spiritual death means being void of the life or nature of God and separated from Him. (which was caused by sin in Romans 5:12).

Physical death and spiritual death culminate in the “second death” (Revelation 20:14). The second death is an eternal separation experienced by all who are void of the life of God. 2 Thess 1:8-9.*

Thanks for clarifying. So, is death–the kind that reigns forever–an enemy of God?

[Revival]

Revival,

*The second death recorded in Rev 20:14 does reign forever over the lost. What does this mean? Physical death is the separation of the spirit from the body, and spiritual death is the separation of the spirit from God. Spiritual death means being void of the life or nature of God and separated from Him. (which was caused by sin in Romans 5:12).

Physical death and spiritual death culminate in the “second death” (Revelation 20:14). The second death is an eternal separation experienced by all who are void of the life of God. 2 Thess 1:8-9.*

Thanks for clarifying. So, is death–the kind that reigns forever–an enemy of God?

No, because In 2 Timothy 1:10 states that Jesus “who has abolished death” (past tense) and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. Would it be fair to say that the death that has been abolished is spiritual death? Therefore would it not stand to reason that physical death and not spiritual death is the final enemy undefeated by Christ? Which would gell with the gist of the eschatlogical portion of 1 Cor 15 and Rev 20:11-15.

[AllanS]

1. I see what happened to Jonah as a type and shadow of the completed work of Jesus at the cross.(Matt 12:40).And absolutley nothing to do with post mortem salvation.

Jesus, like Jonah, died and descended into the deep, the primaeval chaos of Genesis 1 that lies beneath the earth. Like Jonah, he was swallowed by the chaos monster. There, in eternal darkness, he prayed to God and was raised to life. Like Jonah, Jesus now is in the business of preaching repentance to the wicked. As with Jonah, the wicked will repent and be saved.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

“Yes, Lord,” she told him, “I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come into the world.”

The person who believes (ie. who loves, desires and cares for God) shares in God’s aeonian life because God’s holy Spirit is love. Jesus is emphasizing the essential connection between love, life and belief. To believe is to truly live. To truly live is to believe. He’s not discussing what can and cannot happen after physical death.

[Revival]

1. I see what happened to Jonah as a type and shadow of the completed work of Jesus at the cross.(Matt 12:40).And absolutley nothing to do with post mortem salvation.

Jesus, like Jonah, died and descended into the deep, the primaeval chaos of Genesis 1 that lies beneath the earth. Like Jonah, he was swallowed by the chaos monster. There, in eternal darkness, he prayed to God and was raised to life. Like Jonah, Jesus now is in the business of preaching repentance to the wicked. As with Jonah, the wicked will repent and be saved.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

“Yes, Lord,” she told him, “I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come into the world.”

The person who believes (ie. who loves, desires and cares for God) shares in God’s aeonian life because God’s holy Spirit is love. Jesus is emphasizing the essential connection between love, life and belief. To believe is to truly live. To truly live is to believe. He’s not discussing what can and cannot happen after physical death.

John 11:26
6 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

The Greek reads like this: Everyone living and believing on me shall by no means die forever. Therefore if one is dead in their sins, they are not alive. And if they are dead, they cannot be alive and believe to receive eternal life as John 11:26 affirms.

[snitzelhoff]

Revival,

No, because In 2 Timothy 1:10 states that Jesus “who has abolished death” (past tense) and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. Would it be fair to say that the death that has been abolished is spiritual death?

I would point out a few things. Sometimes the past tense is used of things whose decisive move has been accomplished, but that have not been fully realized yet. Romans 8:30, for instance, says that “those whom He justified, He also glorified.” Clearly we haven’t been glorified yet, but the decisive move toward glorification is accomplished. Death still happens, on all levels, but for death to truly be abolished, it must not happen on any level.

Paul is following in the footsteps of the Hebrew prophets in speaking this way; they often spoke of future events in the perfect (already completed) tense (“Prophetic Perfect”), indicating that if the Lord had decided to do a thing or declared that a thing was going to happen, it was as good as done already.

I would, furthermore, point out that Paul did not seem to have compartmentalized between “physical” and “spiritual” death the way that Western theology often insists upon. For the Jewish mind, sin, death, and condemnation were all bound up together as the thing that had gone wrong with God’s good creation. In Romans 5, the reign of death was the sign that sin was around even when there were no commandments to break. In I Corinthians 15, the ultimate abolition of death is seen as the ultimate hope of Christians, even though (surely!) we’re looking forward to more than simply resuming biological function forever and ever.

But let’s leave all this to one side for a moment. When I asked if the death-that-reigns-forever is an enemy of God, you answered “no.” You then suggested that “spiritual” death has already been abolished. And then you went on to say this:

Therefore would it not stand to reason that physical death and not spiritual death is the final enemy undefeated by Christ? Which would gell with the gist of the eschatlogical portion of 1 Cor 15 and Rev 20:11-15.

Now, if spiritual death is what Jesus came to abolish and physical death is “the final enemy,” then both sorts are enemies, right? And if you throw both together into a single, great Death, it doesn’t suddenly become God’s friend, does it?

[AllanS]

if one is dead in their sins, they are not alive. And if they are dead, they cannot be alive and believe to receive eternal life as John 11:26 affirms.

“He who believes in me will live, even though he dies”

How do we truly live? By believing in him (ie. by loving him.) This sort of life is indestructible because it is animated by God’s spirit. Not even death can kill it.

“and whoever lives and believes in me will never die.”

ie. Jesus repeats himself for emphasis.

[Revival]

Now, if spiritual death is what Jesus came to abolish and physical death is “the final enemy,” then both sorts are enemies, right? And if you throw both together into a single, great Death, it doesn’t suddenly become God’s friend, does it?

The Greek word for abolish means do away with, to put to an end. How can something that Jesus put to an end be an enemy to God still?

[snitzelhoff]

But if it reigns forever, than an end hasn’t been put to it, has it?

[Revival]

But if it reigns forever, than an end hasn’t been put to it, has it?

We don’t have control over reversing physical death. That is the last enemy to be defeated. But we do have control whether we want to be separated from God or not. A man without Christ is spiritually dead or separated spiritually from Him. Paul describes it as “being alienated from the life of God” in Ephesians 4:18. (To be separated from life is the same as being dead.) ** God doesn’t see being separated by spiritual death a problem anymore because Jesus annulled it and broke its power by his completed work on the cross.** That was God’s part in the reconciliation. Now we must do our part and receive this reconciliation by faith in this life.

There is provision for mankind to receive this reconciliation by faith in this life by choice. God will honor your choice not to be reconciled to Him through Jesus in this life and to be separated spiritually from him for eternity and throw you into the lake of fire which is the second death or eternal separation from God in Rev 20:11-15.

Paul supports this in 2Thess 1:8-9

8** In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power**;

This eternal separation takes place in Rev 20:11-15.

[corpselight]

But if it reigns forever, than an end hasn’t been put to it, has it?

We don’t have control over reversing physical death. That is the last enemy to be defeated. But we do have control whether we want to be separated from God or not. A man without Christ is spiritually dead or separated spiritually from Him. Paul describes it as “being alienated from the life of God” in Ephesians 4:18. (To be separated from life is the same as being dead.) ** God doesn’t see being separated by spiritual death a problem anymore because Jesus annulled it and broke its power by his completed work on the cross.** That was God’s part in the reconciliation. Now we must do our part and receive this reconciliation by faith in this life.

There is provision for mankind to receive this reconciliation by faith in this life by choice. God will honor your choice not to be reconciled to Him through Jesus in this life and to be separated spiritually from him for eternity and throw you into the lake of fire which is the second death or eternal separation from God in Rev 20:11-15.

Paul supports this in 2Thess 1:8-9

8** In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power**;

This eternal separation takes place in Rev 20:11-15.

you’ve posted a reference to Rev 20:11-15 roughly 90 times.

[Revival]

But if it reigns forever, than an end hasn’t been put to it, has it?

We don’t have control over reversing physical death. That is the last enemy to be defeated. But we do have control whether we want to be separated from God or not. A man without Christ is spiritually dead or separated spiritually from Him. Paul describes it as “being alienated from the life of God” in Ephesians 4:18. (To be separated from life is the same as being dead.) ** God doesn’t see being separated by spiritual death a problem anymore because Jesus annulled it and broke its power by his completed work on the cross.** That was God’s part in the reconciliation. Now we must do our part and receive this reconciliation by faith in this life.

There is provision for mankind to receive this reconciliation by faith in this life by choice. God will honor your choice not to be reconciled to Him through Jesus in this life and to be separated spiritually from him for eternity and throw you into the lake of fire which is the second death or eternal separation from God in Rev 20:11-15.

Paul supports this in 2Thess 1:8-9

8** In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power**;

This eternal separation takes place in Rev 20:11-15.

you’ve posted a reference to Rev 20:11-15 roughly 90 times.

If so maybe I don’t think you understand the finality of the judgment in Rev 20:11-15.

[corpselight]

you’ve posted a reference to Rev 20:11-15 roughly 90 times.

If so maybe I don’t think you understand the finality of the judgment in Rev 20:11-15.

well given all the answers people gave you a good percentage of those 90 times, which you summarily ignored, i think you must be of the opinion that repeating it over and over again is going to support your case. the fact that it is not the last word even of Revelation doesn’t seem to have worked with your viewpoint, so you’ve ignored it.

the ironic thing is that almost all of us (if not all) have come to a belief in God’s total victory through a holistic view of Scripture, not just proof texts. logic, time, and research has gone into this…we saw real Biblical, logical and philosophical issues with the doctrines parroted from most pulpits, and we dug deep and we found a God that does not ever give up…Whose judgement does not last forever but disciplines and restores us.

i really don’t understand your issue with that. it’s there in black and white in the Bible that judgement is never final, never to the utter destruction of a person.
even if we’re wrong (which is highly unlikely to say the least), isn’t it a joyful thing to hope for? isn’t it God who does the soul winning, and us the ones that He uses as we make ourselves available? ultimately He is responsible for everyone’s salvation (John 6:44). all we are doing is putting our trust in His ability to convince anyone. we offer ourselves (as i’m assuming you do) to Him as a vessel for His message, to play a part in that reconciliation.

[Revival]

you’ve posted a reference to Rev 20:11-15 roughly 90 times.

If so maybe I don’t think you understand the finality of the judgment in Rev 20:11-15.
well given all the answers people gave you a good percentage of those 90 times, which you summarily ignored, i think you must be of the opinion that repeating it over and over again is going to support your case. the fact that it is not the last word even of Revelation doesn’t seem to have worked with your viewpoint, so you’ve ignored it.

the ironic thing is that almost all of us (if not all) have come to a belief in God’s total victory through a holistic view of Scripture, not just proof texts. logic, time, and research has gone into this…we saw real Biblical, logical and philosophical issues with the doctrines parroted from most pulpits, and we dug deep and we found a God that does not ever give up…Whose judgement does not last forever but disciplines and restores us.

i really don’t understand your issue with that. it’s there in black and white in the Bible that judgement is never final, never to the utter destruction of a person.
even if we’re wrong (which is highly unlikely to say the least), isn’t it a joyful thing to hope for? isn’t it God who does the soul winning, and us the ones that He uses as we make ourselves available? ultimately He is responsible for everyone’s salvation (John 6:44). all we are doing is putting our trust in His ability to convince anyone. we offer ourselves (as i’m assuming you do) to Him as a vessel for His message, to play a part in that reconciliation.

I have an issue with UR because it is not biblical. You can take any scripture you want out of context and create doctrine out of it.

I really don’t understand your issue with this : God doesn’t see being separated by spiritual death a problem anymore because Jesus annulled it and broke its power by his completed work on the cross. That was God’s part in the reconciliation. Now we must do our part and receive this reconciliation by faith in this life. God has done his part. Now he expects you to choose life or death in this life.

[corpselight]

I have an issue with UR because it is not biblical. You can take any scripture you want out of context and create doctrine out of it.

I really don’t understand your issue with this : God doesn’t see being separated by spiritual death a problem anymore because Jesus annulled it and broke its power by his completed work on the cross. That was God’s part in the reconciliation. Now we must do our part and receive this reconciliation by faith in this life. God has done his part. Now he expects you to choose life or death.

that’s not a choice at all

who would, with fair knowledge given + plus revelation by the Holy Spirit to make it plain to us (we all need that, or else this is all just words and wishful thinking), choose death?

you’ve not yet been able to establish why UR is not Biblical. we have established over and over again why ECT is not Biblical.

not all covenants require two participants:

Genesis 15:12-17
God makes the covenant with Himself to further His plan and for Abram’s seed’s benefit

[Revival]

I have an issue with UR because it is not biblical. You can take any scripture you want out of context and create doctrine out of it.

I really don’t understand your issue with this : God doesn’t see being separated by spiritual death a problem anymore because Jesus annulled it and broke its power by his completed work on the cross. That was God’s part in the reconciliation. Now we must do our part and receive this reconciliation by faith in this life. God has done his part. Now he expects you to choose life or death.

that’s not a choice at all

who would, with fair knowledge given + plus revelation by the Holy Spirit to make it plain to us (we all need that, or else this is all just words and wishful thinking), choose death?

you’ve not yet been able to establish why UR is not Biblical. we have established over and over again why ECT is not Biblical.

not all covenants require two participants:

Genesis 15:12-17
God makes the covenant with Himself to further His plan and for Abram’s seed’s benefit

God seemed to think it was a fair choice or he would not of said it. Are you saying God is being unfair?

A lot of people rejected Jesus after seeing miracle after miracle…are you saying fair knowledge was not given plus the Holy Spirit was not making it plain enough to the people who rejected him miracle after miracle?

Yes, they absolutely do require two participants. Do a research on the Blood Covenant and see what you come up with. Corp, your are manufacturing things now to hold on to a unbiblical belief that you don’t want to let go of no matter what. That is dangerous ground, friend.

[snitzelhoff]

Revival,

I’ll return to the conversation proper in a moment, but you said this and it seemed to warrant a comment:

Corp, your are manufacturing things now to hold on to a unbiblical belief that you don’t want to let go of no matter what. That is dangerous ground, friend.

“Unbiblical”? It seems to me that the Scriptures everywhere speak of a God who judges in order to restore (Zephaniah 3, Lamentations 3, all through Isaiah, etc.), that they speak in several places of God’s plan to reconcile all the lost to Himself, whether in the words of Jesus, Paul, John, or others, that they speak of His wrath being finite and remedial, and that they envision a future when all humanity will unite in the joyful worship of its Creator. For an “unbiblical” doctrine, it sure has a lot of biblical support, from every direction!

Eternal torment, on the other hand, I find to be based on cherry-picked proof-texts ripped from their contexts, unscriptural assumptions grounded in Platonic philosophy and Pagan religion, contrived theology, mistranslations, and poor exegesis at every turn. What I’m saying is, be careful in making such brash accusations against others, lest you find yourself caught up in the same error.

[snitzelhoff]

All right, back to the main conversation:

God doesn’t see being separated by spiritual death a problem anymore because Jesus annulled it and broke its power by his completed work on the cross. That was God’s part in the reconciliation. Now we must do our part and receive this reconciliation by faith in this life.

This seems to be the center of your argument. Now, let me see if I’ve got this straight. Your argument is more or less as follows:

1. Death, in all its forms, started out as God’s enemy when it was introduced through sin.
2. In order to defeat death, in all its forms, God sent Jesus.
3. Jesus, through His death and resurrection, defeated death, in all its forms.
4. Because Jesus defeated death in all its forms, physical death will be reversed for everyone.
5. Because Jesus defeated death in all its forms, spiritual death will be reversed for those that choose to participate in eternal life.
6. Because Jesus opened the way for eternal life, spiritual death is no longer an enemy.
7. However, (spiritual) death will still reign forever over most of humanity.
8. Therefore, death, which will reign forever over most of humanity, is not an enemy of God.
9. Thus, death’s ultimate, eternal reign need not be broken and it need not be utterly abolished for all time with regard to those over whom it will eternally reign (that is, the lost).

Have I missed something or is that about right?